[Buddy Love]

This is my first post and question. Your comments would be appreciated.

I'm getting into transcribing songs which I can't find the tabs but also songs I have the tabs to see how the songwriter created a specific piece of music. I think this may be a good approach to learning songwriting. Here's my approach:

1. I try to get the bass notes and melody lines down.
2. From there I try to find the key and chords associated with that key.
3. I've been using the harmonic scale approach for figuring out most of the chords. I have all the possible major, minor, and extended chords for the major key and relative minor key that I think the song is in.
4. But then I hit the wall trying to find some specific chords.
5. I'm also using our piano to pick out notes besides my guitar. I don't really know the piano that well but can pick out the chords, melodies, and bass runs.

Any suggestions or ideas for transcribing?

Thanks,

Dan

[allthumbs]

You might try altering the order of your steps. Everything flows out of the chords so that is the place to start IMO. Once you know the key, you can go through the most common chord progressions construction first. A huge number of songs use the I,IV,V progression so that is usually where I start. Then I look for relative minor substitutions, then once you have the main chords down look for passing chords used and any outside chords. The melody passes through the chords and most strong melodies follow them pretty closely. Same with the bass walking from chord to chord. Just my way of looking at it. Hope that helps .BTW those are the same steps you need to do to jam over a tune.

[Kirk Lorange]

Hi Buddy ... allthumbs' advice is good. Work your way out from the chords.

Unless it's some kind of way out there tune, most of the chords used will be related chords -- chords from the key. There are three majors (I-IV-V) three minors (ii-iii-iv) and the rarely used vii (the half diminished). So, the first thing to do is establish the key, which is kind of like saying 'find the I chord'. Once you do that you've started to zero in on the possibilities.

You'll find that if the chord isn't one of the related chord, it's probably a majorized minor or a minorized major. That's the first place to look for any outsiders. The lessons I post here are full of them and I always point them out in the commentary. You start to hear them after a while ... if it's not one them either, listen first to the bass note. Assume it's a root to begin with, so experiment with other flavors using the bass note as root ... if it's still not fitting the bill then assume the bass note is the 3 of the chord ... chords like G/B or D/F# or Am/G ... if it's a passing chord, look at diminished and augmented ...

I hope this helps ...

[Jean]

This will help me too...

[Buddy Love]

Allthumbs and Kirk,

Thanks for the suggestions. Let me think about and do some research about the passing chords and majorized minors.

I'm just recently back into the guitar and music. I just started again in January after a 40 year absence. It's never too late. Maybe I'm a little smarter now or something with age.

The internet is great with the lessons, tabs, and theory you can find on here. Plus, people sharing information is just amazing.

I've been printing a lot of different guitar tabs just to get a feel for how writers write for the different genres of music. That includes rock, jazz, blues, rhythm and blues, Motown, big band, country, bluegrass, old time, Spanish, classical, Irish, etc.

Like the old classic rhythm and blues really used a lot of jazz type chords. Interesting that Steely Dan used a lot of those, too. I've got a real appreciation now for of all types of music, the songwriters and musicians.

Thanks Again,

BL

[Kirk Lorange]

It's interesting how the more you learn about music, the more styles and genres (love that word) you can appreciate, until they just all merge into one big thing called Music. I used to be a lot more particular about what I liked and didn't ... now, so long as it's well played and in tune, I like it all. They're always those same 12 notes.

[Buddy Love]

Kirk,

I'll drink to that. If people only heard the music we play or listen to on party nights they'd think we were nuts. On a given night we can go from Big Bill Broonzy to the Carter Family (Mother Maybelle played a mean acoustic) to John McLaughlin to King Crimson to John Williams to the old rockers Love or Yes or Tull or ELP to Pearl Jam to DMB to the Gypsy Kings to Loreena McKennit to Zappa to Coltrane and on and on and ....

Variety is the spice of life.

Dan

[stubbie7]

Dan:

I like what you say. I am trying to hammer this into the minds of my nieces and nephews and seem to be getting no where. If I could only listen to one style, kind, genre, whatever, I think I would go nuts. I guess I should cut them a little slack though as my likes in music weren't always as expansive as they are now.

Rick

[Buddy Love]

Rick,

I hear you. I was a radio announcer in my younger days and worked at rock, country, and classical stations. So I was exposed to a lot of music plus a lot of freebie promotional albums of different forms of music.

People get locked into one type of music and never expand their thinking. Like down here in the South, some people are strictly Bluegrass. It is like a religion or something. They don't even like Bluegrass Groups that do rock tunes like Seldom Scene doing Clapton's 'After Midnight' or Dylan's 'Boots of Spanish Leather'. Very strange.

By the way, I went to my first private Bluegrass jam down here a few weeks ago in our neighborhood. It was a lot of fun and yes, there was moonshine and all. The guys were really great musicians and like to party. They've been having this jam on Friday nights for the last 40 years.

I didn't play that night but the next time I'm going to try to 'Spank the Plank' with them. A lot of I-IV-V tunes and I can't forget to bring a capo. But they were really good flatpickers and the harmony was amazing.

Dan

[Dugal]

Those bluegrass nights sound great Dan.

On the whole genre thing. I absolutely agree that the more I listen, the less I care what genre it is, with the exception of really loud metal stuff, which I almost never like; they hurt my ears.

I really like it when someone play songs frrom an entirely different genre in another and they fit. Like Norah Jones doing Hank Willliams' Cold, Cold Heart. Why wouldn't they fit should be the question.