[BENharperROX]

So I was jamming with my friend (1st jam for me and it rocked! ) and he is waaayyyyyy better than I am and I was just asking him how he sees the fretboard of the guitar and scales and whatnot. Well, when he explained it to me it kinda made sense but I was wondering if anyone could elaborate.

I knew the "shape" of the penatonic scales going in. He showed me how the same shape moved up and down the fretboard into different keys. So he would play a progression and would say to me "play over this with a D major pentatonic scale." And from what he showed me I went to the bar chord of D major and from where i put the little bar (on the 7th fret), that where i played the same pentatonic "shape" that i knew:

--1----4-----
--1----4-----
--1--3-------
--1--3-------
--1--3-------
--1----4-----

I also knew the next shape (2,4 / 1,4 / 1,4 / 1,3 / 2,4 / 2,4) too and so i would solo (or try to ) over what he played. We didn't this for everthing!! F, C, G, E (easiest he says cause it starts on the open string), A, everything! but only Major and minor pentatonic. And it sounded good. I started to see a pattern and it all kinda clicked for a minute. I've lost that "click" sense cause I've become confused again...

So My questions are:

-Is this a good way of looking at the fretboard
-Do I correctly understand the thoery from what I have written
-Is this how planetalk is set up? (It's only confused me and maybe i'm ready now! )
-Is there a pattern for the other scales (major, minor, etc.) and what's the difference b/w say a Em pentatonic scale and just a regular Em scale?
-Do you hate me yet?

Ok don't answer the last one. Hopefully I have made some sense and can get some explanations. Thanks your taking your time to read this and help a beginner out.

[cshude]

-A good way of looking at the fretboard is one that makes sense to you. This is the way I started out as well.
- Em Pent scale: E-G-A-B-D-E-B-D-E-G (in the shape you laid out above in TAB)
- Em scale: this would be your E major scale with the third dropped a half-step. It's a lot less rock/blues.

If you're worried about theory- you can melt your brain here: http://www.musictheory.halifax.ns.ca...or_scales.html

[emt]

Pentatonic scales are just based on 5 notes whereas the typical major/minor scale would use 8 (8th being the start of the next octive). Of course you can 'go to town' on this theory stuff. The chromatic scale uses all 12 semi-tones etc. etc. If you lookup pentatonic on wikipedia you'll find even pentatonic has lots of different versions and meanings.

I learned the basic Pentatonic forms as you described and they are quite helpful, as they are pretty easy to memorise (hey, there is only 5 notes and you can play the scale with 2 fingers instead of 3 so why wouldn't you). I am sure there are a number of players who do quite well with them, so I would definitely give them a go and it does present a pretty simple way of finding your way around the fretboard

........but unfortunate for me they didn't take me very far and I ended up chucking the guitar in for a number of years because I didn't really improve.

Planetalk is not about pentatonics (but is about music generally and the guitar), and for me opened up many more possiblities for playing. It has given me a great way of viewing the fretboard, knowing how to find 'good' notes for any chord progression, and how they link to other 'good' notes along the way. The planetalk book will also give you a good plain english overview of music theory...I found this invaluable.

BTW ... I haven't done away with Pentatonic forms, major scales, or anything else I have learned, so I don't think Planetalk is a replacement for this stuff, but it is a great weapon to add to your armoury. I now tend to use my pre-planeltalk knowledge as backup material.

I know this reads like a testamonial and probably is. But I bought the book a year ago and haven't looked back.

Good Luck!

[allthumbs]

Originally Posted by BENharperROX

So I was jamming with my friend (1st jam for me and it rocked! ) and he is waaayyyyyy better than I am and I was just asking him how he sees the fretboard of the guitar and scales and whatnot. Well, when he explained it to me it kinda made sense but I was wondering if anyone could elaborate.

I knew the "shape" of the penatonic scales going in. He showed me how the same shape moved up and down the fretboard into different keys. So he would play a progression and would say to me "play over this with a D major pentatonic scale." And from what he showed me I went to the bar chord of D major and from where i put the little bar (on the 7th fret), that where i played the same pentatonic "shape" that i knew:

--1----4-----
--1----4-----
--1--3-------
--1--3-------
--1--3-------
--1----4-----

I also knew the next shape (2,4 / 1,4 / 1,4 / 1,3 / 2,4 / 2,4) too and so i would solo (or try to ) over what he played. We didn't this for everthing!! F, C, G, E (easiest he says cause it starts on the open string), A, everything! but only Major and minor pentatonic. And it sounded good. I started to see a pattern and it all kinda clicked for a minute. I've lost that "click" sense cause I've become confused again...

So My questions are:

-Is this a good way of looking at the fretboard
-Do I correctly understand the thoery from what I have written
-Is this how planetalk is set up? (It's only confused me and maybe i'm ready now! )
-Is there a pattern for the other scales (major, minor, etc.) and what's the difference b/w say a Em pentatonic scale and just a regular Em scale?
-Do you hate me yet?

Ok don't answer the last one. Hopefully I have made some sense and can get some explanations. Thanks your taking your time to read this and help a beginner out.

Ask this on the P.T. forum Ben so we can go into detail.

[AX7221]

I look at it the same way as the tab except i add colors. i use the colors to keep in mind what note of the scale im playing, so i can learn what each note sounds and feels like

Nice Diagrams Ax-how do you do them?

[AX7221]

Microsoft Word. First i made a table to be the strings and frets, then i used a text block to w/o a border to cover the last vertical line on each side, then i wrote in EADGBE on the left text block, then i put in the different dots using word art, then selected all the dots and using properties put them all the same distance from the side of each cell. This is my template. it has every spot filled in, so to make a new scale i just take out dots. for the forum i had to do a screen capture then save the screen caputure as a picture. If you would like to make some i should find a way to give you the template, then you can just delete dots and its very easy at that point.

[Chaotic Kittie]

I was wondering about pentatonic scales... why do you bother about saying "major" or "minor" pentatonic scales? The shape is still the same, the only difference is that it is played to a minor or major chord progression... My first teacher had me confused like hell at first when he said "now play the pentatonic scale in A Minor..." and then "now play it in C major.."... and then I found it was exactly the same shape anyways. So please, explain to me why people bother to call it major/minor. >.<

[Fretsource]

They're not the same Kittie. They just have the same notes but the notes are treated differently in each case.
C major and A natural minor have exactly the same notes too, but I'm sure you'll agree that there is an important difference between them. It's the same with pentatonics.

[Chaotic Kittie]

Ah, OK, I see... Well, somehow I still have more understanding for it in the major and minor scales than with pentatonic... can't say why though
I'll always refer to them as just the pentatonic scale!

Thought a bit now though... because, let's say A minor and A major... if I am asked to play A minor scale, starting from A, and then play A major scale, starting from A, they have different shapes... if asked to change from A minor pentatonic to A major pentatonic, starting from A, the shapes are STILL the same. I guess that's why I think of it as rather unnessecary to call the pentatonic major/minor, even though it sounds different whether played under a major or minor key...

[Fretsource]

Originally Posted by Chaotic Kittie

if I am asked to play A minor scale, starting from A, and then play A major scale, starting from A, they have different shapes... if asked to change from A minor pentatonic to A major pentatonic, starting from A, the shapes are STILL the same. I.

No - The shapes are different because the intervals are different
A Major Pentatonic - A B C# E F# A
A Minor Pentatonic - A C D E G A

[Chaotic Kittie]

Originally Posted by Fretsource

No - The shapes are different because the intervals are different
A Major Pentatonic - A B C# E F# A
A Minor Pentatonic - A C D E G A

!? Omg... I used to like my teacher a lot, thinking he was the best I'd ever had... now I begin to wonder. This means he never questioned that I played wrong... Gee.

Oh well, thanks a lot for clearing that up to me.

[Fretsource]

But A minor pentatonic has the same notes as C major pentatonic, maybe that's what your teacher asked you to change to.
A min pentatonic - ACDEG
Cmaj pentatonic - CDEGA

Same notes - but treated differently.

[scotty_b]

[quote=cshude- Em scale: this would be your E major scale with the third dropped a half-step. It's a lot less rock/blues.[/QUOTE]

Hey
Just flattening the 3rd produces the melodic minor scale, but I think Ben was probably referring to the natural minor scale.
Natural minor would be E F# G A B C D E
Melodic Minor E F# G A B C# D# E

[AX7221]

Originally Posted by Chaotic Kittie

My first teacher had me confused like hell at first when he said "now play the pentatonic scale in A Minor..." and then "now play it in C major.."... and then I found it was exactly the same shape anyways

A Minor Pent - A, C, D, E, G
C Major Pent - C, D, E, G, A

they do have the same shape so its a tough question...but they sound different. The thing is Major and Minor have different feels to them. Depending on how you play you're either establishing A Minor Pent or C Major Pent, you can even switch between the two (modulating). If you play A a lot and you dont play C than you're contributing to the feel for the minor scale, but if you do the converse you're contributin to the feel of the major scale. There are different things that are done that establish which feel you're creating, like which note you start on, which note you keep returning to, which note you hold at the end of a measure plus most of which i dont know.

So the problem is on paper they're identical, its something you have to hear, so i made a recording. I'm new to modulation so i didnt do a real good job. I started in minor pentatonic and every 20 seconds i switched between major and minor pent. The first time i played major pent it didnt come out sounding a whole lot different, but the second time i played it it sounded more major