[lorirocks]

The more I read about modes, the more confused I get.

Here's what I learned:
Modes are scales with the notes in a different order. Am I right?

Here's what I can't figure out:
Is it necessary to know modes? When is it useful? How does it apply to guitar?

Help!!!

[yakbutter]

Some guitarists think modes are not very useful, while others swear by them. Personally, I think modes give another point of view on music, so I think that makes them useful for learning.

There have been lots of posts on modes, and I suggest doing a search for it- Kirk and others have probably done a much better job of explaining it. Still, I'll give it a shot.

Start with the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C

This is given the fancy name "Ionian mode", associated with the I chord- the major tonic. Now if you take this exact same scale but start and end on a different note, you get essentially a different scale:

D E F G A B C D

This is the dorian mode. It has a different feel than the major scale. The two most important modes, I think are the lydian and the mixolydian, which can be obtained by starting on the F and G notes, respectively. Try playing these on your guitar. They sound very similar to the major scale, with a slight difference: The lydian has a #4, and the mixolydian has a b7. What I mean is the lydian sounds exactly like the F major scale, except with the fourth scale degree raised a half step. The mixolydian has a flattened 7th note with respect to the G major scale.

What's this mean in english? If you play a bunch of chords like C F G C, you are NOT allowed to play the F as Fsus4. Try it, it doesn't sound right. That's because that sus4 note is not in the C major scale! Similarly, Gmaj7 won't work. You have to play G7.

Man, this was much clearer in my head- I'm probably making a simple thing sound too complicated!

[nocat]

It's amazing how my mind just switches off when reading stuff related to music theory...!!!

You are not alone, Lori...!!!

Cheers
Ben

[Kirk Lorange]

Hi, lorirocks. Sorry to hear you're feeling discouraged.

Modes ... believe me when I tell you that in all my 46 years of playing, 38 of them professionally, I have never once consciously thought about modes. Modes tend to take care of themselves if you're playing the kind of music we usually listen to ... music you hear coming out of the radio ... they're sort of built into the music. It's a bit like speaking English ... once we learn the basics, and listen to others speaking, we automatically know when to use the present, past of future tenses ... or past participles, or adverbs and adjectives. If we had to consciously think about those things all the time, we'd all be stuttering away and saying nothing.

Give your brain a break ... let the modes take care of themselves for a while longer, enjoy the sounds of those strings vibrating, get lost in chords, which, by the way, encapsulate modes in a very neat way. The last thing you need to wrorry about is modes, believe me ... I'm certainly leaving it 'til last.

[slejhamer]

Originally Posted by Kirk Lorange

Modes tend to take care of themselves if you're playing the kind of music we usually listen to ...

One of the guitar-related "breakthroughs" I've had was in a thread over at Kirk's Planetalk forum, where we were discussing playing chord tones. It suddenly dawned on me, and Kirk confirmed, that when the underlying chord changes and you play new notes based on that chord, you are actually playing a mode - or at least a partial mode.

For example, let's say you have a I - ii - V progression. The I chord is your major chord, and it sets the key. You can build a solo around the tones within that chord triad, plus other related notes, and you're essentially using the major (Ionian) scale.

Now the music switches to the ii chord. Do the same thing with your solo - build it around the notes within the ii chord, which is still in the same key as the I chord. And guess what - you're now in Dorian mode. And the best part is, you didn't have to think about it. You just followed the music. As Kirk said above, the modes take care of themselves.

What happens when the music goes to the V chord? Follow the chord tones ... and you're playing in Mixolydian mode, based on the fifth degree of the major scale.

You can choose to use only the chord tones, and thus be playing partial modes, or you can use the full "chord scales" or modes in the same manner. Why does this work? Because the modes within a given key have the same notes - and those come from the major (Ionian) scale. So, if you know the key you are in, and you know the major scale inside out, then let your tonic (root note) follow the underlying chord and the modes take care of themselves.

And now that I've gotten that in my head, I hope to never have to think about modes again.

Hope that's helpful to you.

[bmurnahan]

There was a recent post here on modes and probably many others as well. Kirk and Slejhamer hit he nail right on the head in these posts. When playing you do not have time to concsiously think about modes.

Any study that you do when practicing whether you use the method from Plane Talk, study scales, listen to music, etc. is just a way to internalize the vocabulary of music so that you have it available for use when it's time to play.

There are many great players that have limited or no knowledge of music theory from a thinking perspective, but they know music theory in an intuitive way. They have just learned the language of music the same way we learn to speak English, through hearing and imitation.

If you are interested in practicing scales just learn the major scale really well. Everthing you need is contained in the major scale or can be arrived at with a small change to the scale.

I am pretty sure that like all of us you play the guitar because you enjoy it. Find ways to make the music you want to play and the rest will take care of itself over time.

Best Wishes,
Bob

[Nem]

a mode isnt just about rearranging scales, its also about which notes you accent when soloing in that mode. its that accent and resolution thats more important than anything, and is what gives them their different sound

[lorirocks]

This does help me understand it better. Also made me realize that I'm probably not ready to learn modes.

I think I just need to play guitar.

I've reached that point where I'm no longer satisfied to learn "little riffs." I want to learn songs in their entirety, or all the parts to a song. I'm getting bored just knowing riffs.

I think I was happier when I was learning for fun. Just something I was doing for me. I shouldn't have listened to others. Their advices were good, but I'm musically challenged. I need to do what's best for me.

Thanks for all the replies. I was panicked when I posted this yesterday. I was feeling like I needed to quit. I felt like I was not meant to learn guitar.

Today I feel better about it. Thanks guys. I love you guys like you're my uncles. *smooch*

[Nem]

nooo don't give up! hang on in there. you dont need to know theory inside out, or be able play every song under the sun to be a good guitarist

a good guitarist is one that has fun when they play their instrument. that is it

[allthumbs]

It is more important that you enjoy playing then how you play. If it stops being fun, your doing something wrong.