[Fong]

I am trying to fill the gaps in my music theory and bone up on my theory at the same time as I am hoping to take a course later this year to basically become a guitar teacher, well if you can't do it teach it as they say

Is this a 'correct' key change from the Key of Dm to the Key of A Major.

Dm / E7 / Gm / A7 // Bm / C# / F#m

The key change would be the Bm from an A7, it doesn't need to be musically pleasing, altho it ain't bad, I am just trying to concrete in the right method for the time being.

I am using primary Modulation to change the keys, using the starting Key of D using the V (dominant) A note and using primary modulation techniques moving to the B, which is a Bm in the Key of A Major.

I don't go for the interview for the course til some time in Autumn, so I have no teacher and I only have one book, altho it is excellent, it doesn't tell you when you get something wrong

Is this right, is this something I can work on and get a little better at and embed in my head or am I doing something wrong and would be better off scrapping this and trying again?

[Fretsource]

No Fong - There's no modulation there to any key, especially A. You don't even have an A chord. Your A7 takes away any chance of modulating to the key of A.

[bmurnahan]

Hi Fong,

You have not really gone into the key of A. A7 is the five chord in D. To modulate to A you would use E7. Even though Bmi is in the key of A it does not establish the A tonality if that's what you want.

Try getting a copy of Harmony and Theory published by the Musicians Institute available through Hal Leonard Publishing. It's a great intro to music theory and does provide answers in the back of the book.

Best Wishes,

Bob

[Fong]

Originally Posted by Fretsource

No Fong - There's no modulation there to any key, especially A. You don't even have an A chord. Your A7 takes away any chance of modulating to the key of A.

So I would have to have an A Major chord involved to make the change? I only used A7 because the Minor Key in the book I am using showed the Dominant as being a 7th chord. It doesn't specify particularly and I think in one part it says it can be anything minor, major or 7th included.

I thought it would just be about the root note rather then having to be a major chord to make a modulation change.

See this is why books aren't so great you can make assumptions which prove to be wrong.

What if I was to play a major chord in that position, would the modulation be correct then?

[Fong]

Originally Posted by bmurnahan

Hi Fong,

You have not really gone into the key of A. A7 is the five chord in D. To modulate to A you would use E7. Even though Bmi is in the key of A it does not establish the A tonality if that's what you want.

Try getting a copy of Harmony and Theory published by the Musicians Institute available through Hal Leonard Publishing. It's a great intro to music theory and does provide answers in the back of the book.

Best Wishes,

Bob

yeah A is the dominant of D.

Now the book I have is talking about primary modulation and it has a chart of how you would modulate from one Key signature to another. The chart is basically a vertical list of letters

They are also colour coded, so that certain groups of three are coloured for Root/Tonic, Sub-Dominant (IV) Dominant (V)

Now it says....

"The vertical block of the three chords shown on the right represents the primary interval "link" that connects the key signatures. The primary intervals are the I, IV and V. They are colour coded to indicate which note is which interval in every key. The rule when modulating from one key to another using primary interval links is: One Horizontal Step, then one vertical step. The chord in the vertical column is the "pivot" chord that allows the modulation."

Now the chart looks a little something like this, you will have to forgive the bad formatting.

Key of E A(IV).B
Key of A A(I)..B
Key of D A(V).B

So in the key of D playing from the V chord, the A, moving one horizontal, one vertical, takes me to the B, which is the pivotal 'link' in the primary modulation chart?

[Fretsource]

Fong - As Bob said, to modulate to A you would need an E7, which is the dominant seventh of A.

Here's a simple method. Include what's known as a 'pivot chord', i.e. a chord that is common to both keys, D minor and A Major. Then follow that by the dominant seventh (E7) of your target key (A). The dominant seventh is foreign to the original key.

Going from D minor to A, you've only got one naturally occurring chord common to both keys, which is A major itself. So a 4 bar (measure) progression such as the following will work:
Dm| Gm |A E7| A
The first A is common to both and makes a smooth change to the foreign chord E7. The E7 being dissonant resolves naturally to A and causes your ear to feel that A is now the new key.

[Fretsource]

Originally Posted by Fong

So in the key of D playing from the V chord, the A, moving one horizontal, one vertical, takes me to the B, which is the pivotal 'link' in the primary modulation chart?

That's not right. Neither B nor Bm are in the key of D minor - They can't be used as pivot chords. Only Bb major (from the D natural minor scale) and B diminished (from the D melodic minor scale) belong to D minor - but even they won't work as pivot chords, because they're both foreign to A.

[Fong]

Originally Posted by Fretsource

Fong - As Bob said, to modulate to A you would need an E7, which is the dominant seventh of A.

Here's a simple method. Include what's known as a 'pivot chord', i.e. a chord that is common to both keys, D minor and A Major. Then follow that by the dominant seventh (E7) of your target key (A). The dominant seventh is foreign to the original key.

Going from D minor to A, you've only got one naturally occurring chord common to both keys, which is A major itself. So a 4 bar (measure) progression such as the following will work:
Dm| Gm |A E7| A
The first A is common to both and makes a smooth change to the foreign chord E7. The E7 being dissonant resolves naturally to A and causes your ear to feel that A is now the new key.

Well I just did a bit more reading and what I was working with is supposed to be for major key changes only, as the book explains that each Major has a relative minor Key, 6th note of the scale, and share the same notes anyway.

So taking that aside a moment, the dealing with a Dm key change, as that is just going to confuse me at this point in time.

Lets start on the A Major Scale and say I wanted to move to E Major.

Would this be right?

D / E / A // F# // B / A / E

With F# playing the role of the pivotal chord?

[Fong]

Originally Posted by Fretsource

That's not right. Neither B nor Bm are in the key of D minor - They can't be used as pivot chords. Only Bb major (from the D natural minor scale) and B diminished (from the D melodic minor scale) belong to D minor - but even they won't work as pivot chords, because they're both foreign to A.

Would it be right for D Major to A Major tho?

As I seem to have become confused earlier about Minor and Major, and this only applies to Major Key changes and not to Minor.

[Fretsource]

Hold on, Im getting confused about what you're asking

Going from A maj to E maj - you wrote
D / E / A // F# // B / A / E

F# would need to be F#minor. There's no F# major in the keys of A or E. All the other chords are ok - but without the dominant seventh (B7) moving to E you won't get a convincing modulation, especially if you include that A chord. That'll just undo your plan and take you back to A.

As for your other question "Would it be right for D Major to A Major tho?" I'm not sure what you're referring to. You mean the original sequence? No - It won't work from D to A either - The A7 keeps you in D.

[Tekker]

Originally Posted by Fong

As I seem to have become confused earlier about Minor and Major, and this only applies to Major Key changes and not to Minor.

Wow, I'm totally lost as to what your book is trying to do. It sounds like it's trying to overcomplicate pivot chords and modulating using the dominant chord. What is the stuff about vertical and horrizontal steps? You can use dominant 7 chords to modulate to minor keys, but I don't think that's what your book is doing....... Or is it?

Your book kind of sounds like the theory book I used when I was in theory class, that book was terrible. It way over complicated simple things and had all kinds of crazy diagrams. My teacher would often sum up an entire chapter in ONE sentence (no kidding). Maybe we have the same book. What did you say that name of your book was?

-tkr

[Fong]

It is basically saying that each Key has two similar keys, one on the dominant line one on the subdominant line, the V and IV chords. That make changes between them relatively easy.

It says that the pivotal chord is the chord that is one horizontal, one vertical move from the Chord you are moving from, in the direction you are moving. If sub-dominant then you move down instead of up. Working from the chord that is either the IV or V in the general scale.

So if you are playing the IV chord in the Key of C Major. F, to move in the sub-dominant direction you would move to the Key of F and the pivotal chord would be G.

In the same key if you were using the Dominant (V) chord the G you would move to the key of G and you would use the A chord as the pivotal chord.

I should hastily add, as far as I understand it, it may be saying nothing of the sort, but that is what i thought it was saying.

[Fretsource]

I'm not sure what that chart is saying - but it's not saying what you think it's saying. If you modulate from C to F you can't use G as a pivot chord. Nor can you use A as a pivot chord when modulating from C to G.
Also it doesn't matter which chord you are on when you decide to modulate. It depends on which key you are in, and which key you're going to.

[Fong]

Originally Posted by Fretsource

I'm not sure what that chart is saying - but it's not saying what you think it's saying. If you modulate from C to F you can't use G as a pivot chord. Nor can you use A as a pivot chord when modulating from C to G.
Also it doesn't matter which chord you are on when you decide to modulate. It depends on which key you are in, and which key you're going to.

Why can't you use A to move from C to G since A is in both the major keys of C and G?

The same for C to F, using G when G is a chord that appears in both the C major and F major keys?

[Fretsource]

Originally Posted by Fong

Why can't you use A to move from C to G since A is in both the major keys of C and G?

The same for C to F, using G when G is a chord that appears in both the C major and F major keys?

No it isn't. A minor is in both keys, not A major. And G major isn't in the key of F major - G minor is.