[hb]

is there any type of chart that I can download that will tell by looking at the sharps and flats, what key the song is in?

[Grump]

Hi Hb,
I'm new as well. Look for the house of music article here and it will help.

[hb]

Is there not a theory that if a song has one sharp at a paticular location then it is a specifice key? And doesn't this apply to all sharps and flats that appear at the begining of sheet music? If so, can one get a chart that lists these?
thanks.

[allthumbs]

Count the number of b or #s at the beginning of the first bar. Here is a chart.
http://www.jmdl.com/howard/music/keys_scales.html

[Lcjones]

ok, that just complicated my life .......

[allthumbs]

Originally Posted by lcjones

ok, that just complicated my life .......

Har. You haven't bought P.T. yet. It uncomplicates playing in different keys real quick. Till then just memorize the most commonly used keys or use a memonic for remembering the circle of 5ths starting with C, no sharps,G 1 sharp,D 3 sharps etc. Same with bs. F 1b then add 1 to B,E,A,D.

[Donovan]

Assuming you mean reading standard notation, there's a little trick to tell you the major key it's in directly as well. Without sharps or flats your in C major.

For sharps, take a semitone above the last notated sharp. So if there's only a F#, the key would be a semitone higher, G major. If there are a F#, C#, G# and D# (correctly notated in that order), the key would be E major (a semitone above the D#).

For flats, take the next-to-last flat. That will represent your major key So if there's a Bb and an Eb (correctly in that order), the next-to-last flat will be Bb, so the key will be Bb major. If there are a Bb, Eb, Ab and Db (correctly in that order), your key would be Ab major. Note that in the key of F there is no next-to-last flat, just the Bb. You have to take that one for granted.

Of course if you know (or have good reason to assume) you're dealing with a minor key, just take the relative minor of the major key you found. As a rule of thumb, the relative minor will be 3 semitones lower than it's major key. So C major would be relative to A minor. G major would be relative to E minor. Ab major would be relative to F minor etc.

I'm not too fond about just teaching mnemonics and ignoring the how and why, but I hope that helps!

[allthumbs]

I used to know that formula but, it has been so long that i have done anything with standard, I had forgotten it. Thanks for the reminder.

[Donovan]

Ah, no problem I don't use it extensively either, since you'll get used to the more common key signatures anyway and I always like to dig a bit deeper than just using silly tricks. For those of you who're interested why this trick actually works, read below.

---

***WARNING*** Redundant and probably boring explanation here Basic modal and interval theory

Let's start with the sharp part. According to the Circle of Fifths, each time you take a key and bring it up a perfect fifth, you'll need another sharp. It's not a coincedence that each time the note that needs to be sharped happens to be the 7th note of the key's major scale. Let's take a practical example here: If we take C major and pretend we're moving to G major, but WITHOUT adding any sharps, you'll end up in G mixolydian. As you know (I hope), the mixolydian mode has a b7, so in order to make it a regular Ionian/major G, you'll have to sharp the 7th. Ok, now take G major (with the F#) and do the same when moving to D... same b7 you'll encounter, so again you'll have to sharp that one. So if we assume that last sharped note to be the 7th of the corresponding major scale, you don't need to be Einstein to say all you have to do is move up a semitone to the octave/root of the key you're in. TADA

As for the flats, I'm hoping to refer to your vivid imagination. Again, let's look at the Circle of Fifths. Keys which use flats follow eachother in perfect 4ths (or more correctly, by descending fifths). If you take F as your point of reference, you'll see that B is the augmented fourth of the F major scale (so you're in F Lydian, with a #4). So if you follow the same logic as with the sharps, you need to flat the fourth each time to get to Ionian/major. You may check it with the other keys again, the pattern is no coincidence. Now if each time you flat the fourth, then move up a fourth while moving to the next key, you end up on the note you just flatted in the last key. That note will then be the next-to-last flat in the key signature. In the case of F (which only contains a Bb), you'll be moving to the key of Bb next (which contains an Eb), so the next key will be Eb and so on. It's like the order of keys is chasing around the order in which the flats are used [VIVID IMAGINATION REQUIRED HERE]

End of redundant and probably boring explanation

---

I hope I didn't confuse you guys TOO much or gave you a headache, I tend to ramble sometimes

And, no I didn't read this somewhere, I actually made this up myself But don't worry it's all logic and my logic is FLAWLESS, MUAHAHAHAHA! I'm probably part Vulcan or something, my dad has a "Spock's ear" y'know

[hb]

Whew!! I think you anserwed my question. thanks!
hb

[6string]

------|-----# of flats---------|--|---# of sharps---|
--------7---6--5--4--3---2--1-0--1-2-3-4-5-6---7
key-----Cb-Gb-Db-Ab-EB-Bb-F-C--G-D-A-E-B-F#-C#


training game below

http://www.douglasniedt.citymax.com/KeyTrainer.html

[Donovan]

Yea that's a nice "straight" version of the circle of fifths there 6string, thanks. The "# of flats" made me chuckle a bit though, looks like you're TRYING to confuse people there Anyway, glad we were able to help, hb

[6string]

Originally Posted by Donovan

Yea that's a nice "straight" version of the circle of fifths there 6string, thanks. The "# of flats" made me chuckle a bit though, looks like you're TRYING to confuse people there Anyway, glad we were able to help, hb

lol i'll fix it, didnt realize

------|-number of flats--------|---|-number of sharps-|
--------7---6--5--4--3---2--1--0--1-2-3-4-5-6---7
key-----Cb-Gb-Db-Ab-EB-Bb-F--C--G-D-A-E-B-F#-C#

[stratwrassler]

Well, if the music has the chords ( or you can figure them out by ear), and you can play them through the tune, then whatever chord you land on to end the tune, usually that's the key it's in.

I don't necessarily mean the last chord in the chart, but the chord that sounds right to your ear for the end of the tune.

Peace,
Rico