[PurpleCity]

Hey everyone love this forum. First time posting.
I have two questions, that are related.

I was wondering how you come up with a songs rhythm as a whole: lyrics, lead, bass, drums, guitar, piano, etc...?

And how do you make all the parts gel together rhythm wise?

thanks

[carol m]

Welcome PurpleCity, I'm not sure what you mean, but songs are usually the same rhythm all the way through and that applies to all the instruments played in it.

For example 4/4 rhythm is 4 beats to each bar, or 3/4 rhythm (waltz) with 3 beats to a bar. It's true that the basic rhythm can be accented or syncopated in various ways to give 'swing' or 'reggae' etc, and the guitar up/down strokes give variety to a song.

The drums do all sorts of weird and wonderful things that I have no clue about, but it still fits the overall rhythm of the song (4/4, 3/4, etc)

Don't know if that's what you meant - if not, ask for more details.

[PurpleCity]

hey thanks for the GREAT answer and quick answer.

do you mind if I ask you a couple of more simple questions?

I am in a learning slump and have been bothered with "rhythm" in general, I think because I am over thinking it some or just not getting it.
I have been playing guitar and piano for a little over a year now... I have a ton of guitar and piano books, music theory books, song writing books, sheet music, composition books, I even have some bass guitar and drum books. I know a lot of the basic theory and more. Some of the books I read do have rhythm parts in them but its explaining notes, synocopation, etc... Kind of like your answer (but you answer was a little bit clearer and did help a lot!)

I don't know if I am asking my question wrong, or I just flat out don't know hot to ask it, or if the answer does not exist. I know about time sig's 4/4, 3/4. I know that beats 1 and 3 are usually stressed etc... I know about all the notes, ties, etc... About lyrical rhythms (iambic, trochaic,etc...) and how certain words have different cadences etc... Sorry for listing everything I know lol. It helps explain it more clearly.

Ok so basically for right now and to make things easy, I am just interested in common time 4/4 pop/rock type of song. So here are the couple of questions I have?

1. Are there common rock rhythms that you can use as a guideline?? Like you know how latin music have the mamba, salsa, etc... Does rock have common rhythms too??

2. I always think that I have an understanding of this "rhythm" problem I am having lol, then something throws me off. For example here is an observation I made, I was looking over tons of sheet music for some rock songs it was all in 4/4 time. From what I read beat 1 and 3 are your important beats and you want to stress important words/stressed syllables on those beats. But looking over the sheet music a lot of the songs started there lyrical lines with a stressed word on beat 2... so they skipped the first important beat and went right to beat 2 and then usually ended there line/phrase on the second measure/bar tieing beat 4 with beat 1. Also a lot time a word starts on beat 2 and is tied to beat 3. So is all of this lyrical synocopation??? Or is it a form of common rock rhythm since a lot of songs sort of follow this form??? (this sheet music is just pop and rock by bands like U2, Coldplay, Matchbox 20, Goo Goo Dolls, linkin park, groups like that, nothing extreme or with strange signatures etc...)

3. Say you have a song and you have the lyrics how do you know on what beat to start singing them?? I thought it was stressed syllables usually go with the stressed beats, I know that you can synocopate the words and beats matching up sometimes.

4. Hopefully all the explaining and questions sort of explains it a little more clear, or you can kind of get where I am coming from. Is this common rock rhythm/feel/groove, whatever you want to call it just not exist?? I know there are things that a lot of pop/rock songs have in common, so I know there are following some sort of guidelines and breaking them here and there. But what?? It feels like everyone knows this secret of rhythm etc... except me.

Sorry for such a long reply/answer.

[carol m]

I replied to your pm. Other members will come along with more ideas soon.

For other members who might like to know my answer, it was basically picking a song or two you want to learn, watching and listening to the song on youtube many times, comparing it with the sheet music (or not) and playing along until you know everything there is to know about how the song has been put together and performed.