[rapter]

I have been practicing my 5 positions for the major scale, more specifcally the G major scale. Each position is the two octave scale, now I see three note per string scales. I know they are the same notes i.e. G major. What is the advantage of some three note per string scales? How important is it to know the letter names of each note of a scale? I can randomly improvise with the pentatonics until I hear the right notes when playing along in a progression. Which brings me to another question. How do you use your scales?

Is there a correct way to use a major or minor scale, for example would you want to record a progression that is diatonic to the scale being used and improvise that exact scale to create a melody. I use some backing tracks and play in that key.

I don't mean purposely to sound fragmented in my thoughts but if one question was used, how and what is the right way to practice and use scales? Thank you for your thoughts on this subject.

[scorpius]

Hi! First of all I'm still a beginner when it comes to the scales (more so, in music theory and improvising) so this might not answer your questions directly but I'll try to share a little of my experience.

Before joining this forum I was trying to learn the minor pentatonic scale and its different positions along the fretboard because I wanted to add something ("improvisation") to my guitar playing which has always been on strumming, then humming the solo or the riff portion, while playing the chords. So after I joined here, I was exposed to another "school of thought", which is, improvising by the use of chord tones. Although the choice between using the scales and using the chord tones is up to the person who plays the guitar, I felt I was convinced that the use of chord tones will work better for me than using the pentatonic scales.

So what to do with what I learned on pentatonic scale? I still find it useful as a warm-up exercise, for finger stretching. On the three notes per string you mentioned, usually the third note on the string can be "relocated" to the same note on the next higher string (or looking at it in another way, the first note on the string can be "relocated" to the same note on the previous lower string), depending on the convenience of your fingers. Also, I believe that the letter names of each note of the scale will be helpful if you are into memorizing the notes on the fretboard.

So there, I know there are a lot of scale players here who can explain it better that me. Good luck!

[felixdcat]

I use my scales only to build chords, and to know what key I'm in. Then I'm set to go.

[Hilch]

Originally Posted by felixdcat

I use my scales only to build chords, and to know what key I'm in. Then I'm set to go.

Flelix can you explain exactly what you mean please for me ...

Do you start noodling with scales and work out thats the sound your looking for then play the chords that those scales pertain to ??

Sorry just a old beginner here

Trev..

[98Bones]

Hey rapter, I don't know a lot about guit method but my 'tutor' for 6 months taught me in the 3 notes per string scale style. I think he believed it was an easier method to build speed for someone who was just starting scales. I don't think either is necessarily a better way to learn them. The only thing I can say is a lot of method books assume you're learning the other way and once in a while an illustration doesn't come across as easily because I'm familiar with the '3 per' method. That's a rare case though. I might be inclined to practice both because the more you can do with your left hand the better. If it's too confusing then go with which way feels better and fly with it. Scales are now coming kind of slowly for me ( as I stopped taking lessons) but I'm plugging away... I also want to learn the chord shape lead methods that they're talking about on this site. The more weapons I can get the better... I would still like to take more lessons because the scale info came easier when I was coached by someone who knew what they were talking about... Bones

[bmurnahan]

What is the advantage of some three note per string scales?

Some players that use economy or sweep picking find they can play faster with 3 note per string scales.

How important is it to know the letter names of each note of a scale?

You need to know the tonic so you can get to the right key but it's more important to know the number of each note in the scale.

how and what is the right way to practice and use scales?

This question could require a long answer. I am sure there are many thoughts on this that have already been expressed here somewhere. I suggest you do a search.

Bob

[felixdcat]

Well, yeah, you can play scales fast, but does it affect your overall playing a lot? You do gain a lot, but you "musicality" dies a bit, I guess.

[LMay]

The 3 note per string form of the scale is useful in a few ways. one of the most important is that it allows you to more easily begin on any note in the scale, therefore giving you access to all of the MODES of that scale.

As far as practicing scales, I have my students practice them in this manner:

Set the metronome at 60 and play 1. eighth notes--twice through the scale 2. triplets--three times through and 3. Sixteenth notes four times through.

When you can do all three rhythms without stopping, begin to increase the metronome speed.

You will almost immediately begin to notice the difference in your playing!

[felixdcat]

Originally Posted by LMay

The 3 note per string form of the scale is useful in a few ways. one of the most important is that it allows you to more easily begin on any note in the scale, therefore giving you access to all of the MODES of that scale.

As far as practicing scales, I have my students practice them in this manner:

Set the metronome at 60 and play 1. eighth notes--twice through the scale 2. triplets--three times through and 3. Sixteenth notes four times through.

When you can do all three rhythms without stopping, begin to increase the metronome speed.

You will almost immediately begin to notice the difference in your playing!

Guess I never thought of it that way. I guess the most important thing about scales, or anything else, is to see them all along the fretboard, and not just as cuts here and there. Because then you can see the real connections.

[bmurnahan]

Playing fast is a means to an end. Does playing a fast passage really cause musicality to suffer?

Part of soloing is being able to build intensity as you go along. Speed is one way to do that. Granted, all speed from start to finish can be boring and predictable, but having good technique is worth the effort.

IMHO, choice is always better than no choice. What about the following? Does the music suffer because of the way Carlton chooses to approach his solo?

YouTube - "Burnable" Larry Carlton with Robben Ford

[felixdcat]

Originally Posted by bmurnahan

Playing fast is a means to an end. Does playing a fast passage really cause musicality to suffer?

Part of soloing is being able to build intensity as you go along. Speed is one way to do that. Granted, all speed from start to finish can be boring and predictable, but having good technique is worth the effort.

IMHO, choice is always better than no choice. What about the following? Does the music suffer because of the way Carlton chooses to approach his solo?

YouTube - "Burnable" Larry Carlton with Robben Ford

Not at all. I didn't mean to tell that it hurts, just that some people just play different ways of scale picking, and they have trouble finding the head and the tail of the piece.

I agree about the technique.

[jon_stggt]

Originally Posted by rapter

How important is it to know the letter names of each note of a scale? I can randomly improvise with the pentatonics until I hear the right notes when playing along in a progression.

When i learned minor pentatonics, i gave no thought to the notes/note names, I just learned the box patterns. Improvising is great fun once you have these shapes in your mind.
However, when trying to follow players of higher levels they always refer to notes within whatever scale is in question. Often refering to notes they add or substitute for a certain sound.
This is when not knowing notes becomes a serious limitation to how you progress.
In my experience I found myslef having to step back to basics.
If I could start again! I'd not only learn notes of scales but every note on the fretboard.

[felixdcat]

Originally Posted by jon_stggt

When i learned minor pentatonics, i gave no thought to the notes/note names, I just learned the box patterns. Improvising is great fun once you have these shapes in your mind.
However, when trying to follow players of higher levels they always refer to notes within whatever scale is in question. Often refering to notes they add or substitute for a certain sound.
This is when not knowing notes becomes a serious limitation to how you progress.
In my experience I found myslef having to step back to basics.
If I could start again! I'd not only learn notes of scales but every note on the fretboard.

I guess scale degrees would serve you better.

[rapter]

Thank you all for the information on the scale question. I appreciate your input, as there was some meaningful information worth reading to me. I like playing the guitar and am painfully becoming aware my weaknesses. Scales is one of them. I can mess around on the penta. but it seems more difficult on the full major scale. Thanks again.

[solidwalnut]

Originally Posted by jon_stggt

When i learned minor pentatonics, i gave no thought to the notes/note names, I just learned the box patterns. Improvising is great fun once you have these shapes in your mind.
However, when trying to follow players of higher levels they always refer to notes within whatever scale is in question. Often refering to notes they add or substitute for a certain sound.
This is when not knowing notes becomes a serious limitation to how you progress.
In my experience I found myslef having to step back to basics.
If I could start again! I'd not only learn notes of scales but every note on the fretboard.

Interesting point of view. It's much how I tend to think of it, or how I was exposed to it. Before understanding much about the chord tone approach, I also had learned the box shapes. Now it's a huge joy to connect the box shapes with the chord tone approach...talk about making connections!

The biggest area of knowledge I lack in is note names of the moment. As felixdcat and Bob says, scale degrees tend to be my train of thought. Matching note names to those in the moment is a matter of back calculating (or a secondary observance) for me, and I imagine many players. There is value in being able to find particular notes on command, though.

Nothing wrong with anyone wanting to learn all the note names all over the fretboard, but I can't see for me, personally, how that helps. I'm sure it can be a good tool in the bag, but not an end-all-must-see-TV type of learning. I tend to view it with the analogy that they've mapped the human genome. Now they know all the names of the different types of dna strands and the combinations in which they are found. So they know the alphabet, but are light years away from understanding the how and why of the sequences they are seeing.

So if we know all of the names of the notes all over the fretboard, how does that help us play the instrument?

Steve