[ethic]

So, are keys based on the root note of the chord and not the actual individual notes? I mean, if I have a progression that's something like C, B, Gm, F7, C (just made up) would that be in the key of C even though B, Gm and F7 contain notes that aren't part of the key? I mean, do you just determine what scale those root notes are in, and that's the key?

Or does it matter what chord the piece resolves to? Just from Kirk's lessons, I know that something in the key of Am doesn't actually have to start with that chord. But, at least in one lesson I can think of, the piece does end with it. So, what exactly determines what key something is in?

[Fretsource]

What determines the key is the key centre. The key centre is the note (and the chord built upon it) in a song. that, when we hear it, sounds like the HOME note and chord that we always want to return to.

When we hear that note and chord, especially at the end of verses and choruses, it sounds strong, stable and often final. That's why almost all songs finish on that note. Only the key note and chord can give that feeling of finality.

For example, take the song Happy Birthday. Listen to how final it sounds when the last note is sung "YOU". It sounds like that, not because it's the last note but because it's the key note. (Try ending on any other note.)

What makes the keynote sound special is the way that all the other notes relate to it.

If I wanted to write a song with the note C as the key note, then my first choice of notes and chords would be from either the C major scale or the C minor scale.
Both of those scales have sets of notes that will make C sound like the keynote - but they will have a very different feel. If I use the notes of the C major scale my song will sound brighter than if I used notes of the C minor scale.
To indicate which set of notes is used, the song is said to be in the key of C major or C minor depending on which scale was used to provide the notes and chords.

Other sets of notes apart from those scales can be used too - and those are the modes (They're not so good at it as the major and minor scales, though).

[si16]

Have you tried down the back of the couch?

[Fretsource]

Originally Posted by si16

Have you tried down the back of the couch?

That reminds me. Remember those beepers you could stick on your key ring? - and when you lost your keys, like down the back of the couch, you just whistled and the beeper would whistle back at you. Now THAT was a useful invention.

[si16]

Originally Posted by Fretsource

That reminds me. Remember those beepers you could stick on your key ring? - and when you lost your keys, like down the back of the couch, you just whistled and the beeper would whistle back at you. Now THAT was a useful invention.

I was thinking about that earlier this evening as every time I come home from work the kids have managed to lose the remote control. If only it had one of those devices attached.

I still haven't found it yet.

[Aunt Doty]

Originally Posted by si16

Have you tried down the back of the couch?

I was slow on the uptake there! Glad Fretsource made it clear for me!!!!!

[wcostley]

I KNEW THE SAYING, "AS CLEAR AS MUD" HAD TO HAVE ORIGINATED SOMEWHERE, NOW I THINK I KNOW WHERE.
Skip............

[Kirk Lorange]

Originally Posted by si16

I was thinking about that earlier this evening as every time I come home from work the kids have managed to lose the remote control. If only it had one of those devices attached.

That's why they call them 'remote controls' ... 'cause they're always way the hell over there.

[tonedeaf]

Originally Posted by Kirk Lorange

That's why they call them 'remote controls' ... 'cause they're always way the hell over there.

Yes, I need a remote for the remote.

[Sano]

Originally Posted by Fretsource

What determines the key is the key centre. The key centre is the note (and the chord built upon it) in a song. that, when we hear it, sounds like the HOME note and chord that we always want to return to.

When we hear that note and chord, especially at the end of verses and choruses, it sounds strong, stable and often final. That's why almost all songs finish on that note. Only the key note and chord can give that feeling of finality.

For example, take the song Happy Birthday. Listen to how final it sounds when the last note is sung "YOU". It sounds like that, not because it's the last note but because it's the key note. (Try ending on any other note.)

What makes the keynote sound special is the way that all the other notes relate to it.

If I wanted to write a song with the note C as the key note, then my first choice of notes and chords would be from either the C major scale or the C minor scale.
Both of those scales have sets of notes that will make C sound like the keynote - but they will have a very different feel. If I use the notes of the C major scale my song will sound brighter than if I used notes of the C minor scale.
To indicate which set of notes is used, the song is said to be in the key of C major or C minor depending on which scale was used to provide the notes and chords.

Other sets of notes apart from those scales can be used too - and those are the modes (They're not so good at it as the major and minor scales, though).

Pardon me for the dumb question, but, by trying to play by ear, and not waiting to the end of the 1st verse or chorus, wouldn't help much in locating the keynote?

Iain

[Fretsource]

Not a dumb question at all, Iain.

Depending on the song, you don't have to wait for the end of the verse to know the key. In fact, you can often get it within the first chord or two.
The key chord can often be recognised by those qualities I described (except the feeling of finality) wherever else it occurs.
For example - the Beatles song Hey Jude. The first chord is so strong and solid in that context that it couldn't really be anything else other than the key chord. It 'sounds' like it's the key chord, so it must be.

Apart from almost always being the last chord, the key chord is usually either the first chord, or the chord on the first strong beat (e,g., the intro to Perfect Day in A minor, which starts with E).
If it's not, then you don't usually have long to wait for it to make an appearance.

Whether it can be recognised as the key chord depends on your ear and also on how the song has been written - if it has a bunch of weird and seemingly unrelated chords - it might not be possible to know which one, if any is the key chord.

[Doug]

Excellent answers, Fretsource.

[Sano]

Thanks for that Fretsource.

Originally Posted by Fretsource

Whether it can be recognised as the key chord depends on your ear and also on how the song has been written ....

So an example of 'your ear' may be Grateful Dead where I know whatever song's chord structure from tabs, but it still sounds like '...a bunch of weird and seemingly unrelated chords...' ? - (Apologies to Dead heads)


Iain

[Fretsource]

The dead heads are at this moment wondering whether or not to feel offended.

If the chords are really unrelated (which isn't uncommon in some types of music) then the best ear in the world won't be able to find the key, as there wouldn't be one.

[ethic]

So, nothing I said was right?