[hb]

I have a song book that on the front of it, it says, "For Piano-Vocal-Guitar and all 'C' instruments". What is a 'C' instrument??????????
thanks,
hb

[Fretsource]

C instruments are non-transposing instruments. Whichever note you play, that's the one you hear.

Transposing instruments produce a different note to the one you play. For example the clarinet in A drops the pitch of every note by 3 semitones - You play C, but you get A.

[hb]

I'll be darned!! Never heard of such a thing! Sounds like those transposing instrument could be terrible to learn....... if you want one note and have to play another.
hb

[jon_stggt]

Originally Posted by Fretsource

C instruments are non-transposing instruments. Whichever note you play, that's the one you hear.

Transposing instruments produce a different note to the one you play. For example the clarinet in A drops the pitch of every note by 3 semitone - You play C, but you get A.

I never knew that, is there no end to what you can learn on this forum.
And superbly precise answer Fretsource.

[Fretsource]

It means that the music has to be written 3 semitones higher for that instrument (clarinet in A). So if everyone in an orchestra is looking at the note C on the score, The "clarinet in A" player is looking at Eb, (three semitones higher) but the instrument transposes it back down to C.

That's why HB's book says C instruments only. If a "clarinettist in A" tried to play along with him, it would be a disaster because they'd be playing in two diferent keys.

The guitar transposes a whole octave down but is still considered a C instrument because the note names don't change - you play what looks like middle C on sheet music - but it comes out sounding the C below middle C. But it's still C - so it sounds fine.

[Teddy Madison]

Is this relative to the position of the note? Say, on a keyboard a C note is a particular key on the board just like a C on the fret board. If I use a capo, is it now a transposing instrument?

If so, then the guitar, along with a capo, can adjust?

Wayne

[Fretsource]

Originally Posted by Teddy Madison

Is this relative to the position of the note? Say, on a keyboard a C note is a particular key on the board just like a C on the fret board. If I use a capo, is it now a transposing instrument?

If so, then the guitar, along with a capo, can adjust?

Wayne

That's right. In effect, the capo turns the guitar into a transposing instrument. If HB really wanted to play along with the clarinettist in A from the same song book, he'd have to put a capo at the 9th fret. So that he too would be transposing. As the capo can't lower the pitch he'd have to go up an octave (12 frets) then lower it by three frets, (12 - 3 = 9th fret)

[eddiez152]

Same thing happens on my keyboard. Lets say I am listening to a tune and find it has too many sharps of flats in the tune, I may transpose to another key where the pitch and sound is equal but different keys are being used.
I may want to play along with the guitar and do the same with a capo on the guitar to play along with a tune and use chords that I am more familiar with.

This sound pretty much like the above ?

[Fretsource]

Yep - same thing Eddie

[hb]

Along the same line.......when I first started the guitar, I could'nt figure out why when I played a song, it sounded so low!! Then I found out, (probably from this forum) that middle C on the guitar was one octave lower. Someone told me why, but I can't remember. Anyway, I can play the original music with a capo and it's in the pitch range of the original song. This is probably why I am so addicted to having a capo on.
thanks for the replies.
hb

[Chris C]

Hi,

EDIT: slow typist, some of this has already been mentioned now!

Guitars can easily transpose to another key by using a capo. But in one sense they are already transposing as (for convenience) guitar music is written an octave higher than it's actually played. So if a pianist and a guitar player use the same sheet music they are playing the same notes, but an octave apart.

The benefits of having transposing instruments (like clarinets or sax) is that the same fingering patterns can be used on all versions of the instrument. It's easier to transpose the score than to learn a whole new way of fingering if you swap between, for instance, an alto and a tenor sax.

The most common clarinet is a Bb. So if I play a written C on my clarinet then the sound that comes out is a Bb. If I pick up an Eb clarinet and play the same fingering pattern, then the same tune comes out, just in a different key.

Saxes (of which there are a large range) work on the same idea. I have an Alto sax which is in Eb, but if it was a tenor I could use the same fingering as the alto sax but it would be in Bb like my clarinets.

It sounds more complicated than it really is. If you have a transposing instrument, and need to play with something that uses another key, then you either play from a score set in a different key, or learn to transpose 'on the fly' (which is well out of my capability at the moment, so I'd just use a score set in the appropriate key)

Cheers,

Chris

Apologies if there are any typos or errors in the above, but I'm in a bit of a hurry this morning...

[namiguShin]

A question...

I read somewhere that a guitar is playing middle C from staff an octave lower so that you can squeeze all the notes from open 6th string to 12th fret on 1st string into the staff by only using ledger lines, i.e. without using 8va sign... So, if this is true, can you make the same comparison with a clarinet so it fits into this story? I'm a bit confused about this... Is a clarinetist, with a Bb clarinet, trained to play the "C" note (to finger C) whenever he sees Bb on staff, and to finger C whenever he sees Eb on staff while playing Eb clarinet? Is it that easier to learn this moving of notes then to learn which note is where on every instrument separately? I'm really not getting the point of all this...

[Fretsource]

Originally Posted by namiguShin

A question...

Is a clarinetist, with a Bb clarinet, trained to play the "C" note (to finger C) whenever he sees Bb on staff, and to finger C whenever he sees Eb on staff while playing Eb clarinet? Is it that easier to learn this moving of notes then to learn which note is where on every instrument separately? I'm really not getting the point of all this...

Not quite, Namigushin.
When a Bb clarinet player, sees C on the staff, they play the note C - but the Bb clarinet automatically changes it to Bb.

If a composer of an orchestral piece wants every instrument to play the note C, he or she must write D on the clarinet score. The player will see and play D, but the clarinet will automatically change it to C, so EVERYONE will be playing the note C, exactly as the composer wanted.

The point of all this is so that the clarinet player can play any type of clarinet using exactly the same fingering. As all the different clarinets are different sizes, they produce a different range of notes. It would be too difficult to relearn different fingering every time they play a different clarinet.

It's exactly the same as using a capo. You can play a G chord. If you put the capo on at the second fret and play the same shape, we'll still think of it a G chord, but we know really that the capo has changed it to A.
If playing by ourselves, it doesn't make any difference what we call it. But if we play with someone else, we have to take that change of pitch into account.

[fly135]

Learn something everyday. I played a clarinet in Jr High but never knew why it was called a Bb clarinet.

[namiguShin]

Originally Posted by Fretsource

Not quite, Namigushin.
When a Bb clarinet player, sees C on the staff, they play the note C - but the Bb clarinet automatically changes it to Bb.

If a composer of an orchestral piece wants every instrument to play the note C, he or she must write D on the clarinet score. The player will see and play D, but the clarinet will automatically change it to C, so EVERYONE will be playing the note C, exactly as the composer wanted.

The point of all this is so that the clarinet player can play any type of clarinet using exactly the same fingering. As all the different clarinets are different sizes, they produce a different range of notes. It would be too difficult to relearn different fingering every time they play a different clarinet.

It's exactly the same as using a capo. You can play a G chord. If you put the capo on at the second fret and play the same shape, we'll still think of it a G chord, but we know really that the capo has changed it to A.
If playing by ourselves, it doesn't make any difference what we call it. But if we play with someone else, we have to take that change of pitch into account.

Ok... That explains it all... The composer is the one that does the conversion, not clarinet player... Fretsource you're the best... Btw, just listening to Scotch Mist, great one...

All best