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Eric

Ranking the lessons

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It sure would be nice for those of us trying to learn fingerpicking if someone would rank the lessons in terms of difficulty.

I wouldn't think this would be that hard to do--you know have certain fingerpicking lessons that fall in Stage 1, or Stage 2, up through maybe Stage 5 if 5 enough stages is high enough.

Inexperienced as I am, it gets a little frustrating choosing a lesson and then finding out it is more difficult than what my level of learning is ready for.

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Hi Eric

I guess it would be a tad difficult to rate the lessons, as what you may find difficult, others may find easy and vice versa, what you find easy others may find harder.:D

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Hi Eric

I guess it would be a tad difficult to rate the lessons, as what you may find difficult, others may find easy and vice versa, what you find easy others may find harder.:D

True that but theres gotta be some sort way to classify ones as beginner lessons and one as novice lessons.

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I believe Kirk and Clancy already have the lessons categorized in beginners lessons and I gather the fingerstyle lessons would be for the more advanced players or at least intermediate players.

You can confirm here: http://www.guitarforbeginners.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=34

As for actual ranking, I'd say Kirk or Clancy would be the right one's to question about that!:)

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True that but theres gotta be some sort way to classify ones as beginner lessons and one as novice lessons.

Classical repetoire is usually classified by grade levels 1-9. I don't know of any similar grading system for pop/rock/folk/jazz standards.

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I guess I should try and classify these lessons, but I'm not very good at it. I'm never quite sure what level I should slot these into. I'll ask Clancy if there's some way perhaps of members themselves giving them some sort of level-of-difficulty ranking ... that might be the way to go. :winkthumb:

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If I had to say so, I would think JT Style Pickin (more well known chords) and Amazing Grace except for that shift right before C9 are probably (at least to me) the easier of the lessons. (as pertains to the fingerstyle lessons)

Btw: What might you be doing right before that C9 chord fingering on Amazing Grace, you do some kind of slide right there, not really getting through my thick skull.

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I can set something up that will allow members to rate the lessons in degrees of difficulty. I just need some suggestions on how we should rank them.

We could have:

Beginner (although none of them are really for beginners) maybe Easy would be better.

Easy

Intermediate

Difficult

I can set it up to have a maximum of five choices and it will average out... so for example, with just the three choices above, if someone rates the lesson as Easy and someone rates it as Difficult, then it would average out to Intermediate if you know what I mean.

Anyway, looking for suggestions.

We can break it down to up to five levels... hope that all makes sense.

Clancy

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Easy

Intermediate

Difficult

Clancy

I think that is a cool idea Clancy!

Or maybe something like:

Beginner

Novice

Intermediate

Transitional (obviously not quite at the advanced level yet but at a level higher than intermediate)

Advanced

Just a suggestion! Someone else may have a better way!:yes::winkthumb:

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I like the idea of ranking the lessons, although I can see the difficulty in it. I, for one, have attacked lessons that were almost impossible, and others that were a no-brainer. But most of the difficulty was not fingering the chords, but picking out the melody notes from the "lead in" notes, so to speak, especially the songs that I had no reference for how they sound as opposed to popular songs that I had ringing in the back of my brain.

Just me 2 cents worth.

thanks,

hb

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Did you do that on purpose Neil?

The quote in your posts says:

Easy

Intermediate

Difficult

Clancy

:)

Thanks for your suggestions. I think Novice and Beginner are almost the same though.

Clancy

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Did you do that on purpose Neil?

The quote in your posts says:

:)

Thanks for your suggestions. I think Novice and Beginner are almost the same though.

Clancy

No Clancy, it wasn't intentional. :no: Sorry!

I thought novice was actually at a level slightly greater than beginner.:dunno:

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Did you do that on purpose Neil?

The quote in your posts says:

Quote:

Easy

Intermediate

Difficult

Clancy

:)

Thanks for your suggestions. I think Novice and Beginner are almost the same though.

Clancy

Freudian slip :laughingg:

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I guess I should try and classify these lessons, but I'm not very good at it. I'm never quite sure what level I should slot these into. I'll ask Clancy if there's some way perhaps of members themselves giving them some sort of level-of-difficulty ranking ... that might be the way to go. :winkthumb:

The classical repertoire would have single line melodies in 1st position rated as "Grade 1", simple two voice pieces in 1st position would be "Grade 2", etc. etc. Complex pieces that have have a lot of counterpoint, multiple voices and change position a lot get a "Grade 9" rating. Something like Bachs Fugue in Aminor would probably get a "9" ranking.

If you compare the relative complexity of your lessons to something like Fred Noads "100 Graded Studies" you might be able to devise a ranking system of your own.

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The classical repertoire would have single line melodies in 1st position rated as "Grade 1", simple two voice pieces in 1st position would be "Grade 2", etc. etc. Complex pieces that have have a lot of counterpoint, multiple voices and change position a lot get a "Grade 9" rating. Something like Bachs Fugue in Aminor would probably get a "9" ranking.

If you compare the relative complexity of your lessons to something like Fred Noads "100 Graded Studies" you might be able to devise a ranking system of your own.

Well that's got me confused. We were thinking more of allowing members to rank the lessons, so we want to keep it simple, but thanks for your input anyway Justapicker.

Any other ideas before I need to put my own brain to work here, which I'd really rather not do. :helpsmili

Clancy

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My suggestion would be to ask your moderators(nicely) or create small group of "judges" to rank the lessons, I feel that if the same group of people are doing the ranking you would have a level of consistency in the rankings so forum members could apply the rank relative to their own ability.

Cheers

Mat

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Well that's got me confused. We were thinking more of allowing members to rank the lessons, so we want to keep it simple, but thanks for your input anyway Justapicker.

Any other ideas before I need to put my own brain to work here, which I'd really rather not do. :helpsmili

Clancy

I always relate to the famous quote ("Keep it simple, stupid!). This is how 90% of your readers will view it be able to relate to it. And yes, this includes me!

hb

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Well that's got me confused. We were thinking more of allowing members to rank the lessons, so we want to keep it simple, but thanks for your input anyway Justapicker.

Any other ideas before I need to put my own brain to work here, which I'd really rather not do. :helpsmili

Clancy

What's confusing? In the classical guitar world there is a standardized method of rating the difficulty of the repertoire.

IMO, something along those lines would be more useful than having the members judge their difficulty simply because someone who has been playing one month will rate a lesson "difficult", while someone who has played for one year might rate it as a "beginners piece".

The ratings really should come from the teacher. Who is the lesson designed for? What particular skill or skills is it trying to teach? What skills should one have mastered prior to beginning this lesson? Those are some of the questions I think need to be answered so that the self-guided student can choose things to work on that are appropriate to his/her skill level. It helps them avoid the " I can't play this so I must suck!" syndrome that comes from attempting songs they'd be better off trying in a year or two.

Clearer?:dunno:

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My grading would be:

Those I can almost do (preferably in private)

Those that I hope to do at some time in the future (hopefully before I die) and

In your dreams!!

but dreaming's good! :D

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What's confusing? In the classical guitar world there is a standardized method of rating the difficulty of the repertoire.

IMO, something along those lines would be more useful than having the members judge their difficulty simply because someone who has been playing one month will rate a lesson "difficult", while someone who has played for one year might rate it as a "beginners piece".

The ratings really should come from the teacher. Who is the lesson designed for? What particular skill or skills is it trying to teach? What skills should one have mastered prior to beginning this lesson? Those are some of the questions I think need to be answered so that the self-guided student can choose things to work on that are appropriate to his/her skill level. It helps them avoid the " I can't play this so I must suck!" syndrome that comes from attempting songs they'd be better off trying in a year or two.

Clearer?:dunno:

Well unfortunately in this case the rankings won't be coming from the teacher, so we are trying to find better way of showing the level of each lesson.

Maybe (as mattz196 suggested) a select group of members going through the lessons and giving the rankings might be the way to go... or even just one experienced person... Want to volunteer Justapicker? :)

Clancy

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I think Novice and Beginner are almost the same though.

Clancy

Your right of course!:winkthumb: I checked my home dictionary and clarified it for myself.

Here: (a person who is new to the circumstances, work, etc., in which he or she is placed; beginner; tyro: a novice in politics.)

What would be the next step up from a beginner then? Surely it wouldn't be intermediate.

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As far as I remember, the classical grades (In the UK there are 8 not 9) were classified as:

Grade 1 = Beginner

Grade 2 = Elementary

Grade 3 = Can't remember

Grade 4 = Lower

Grade 5 = Higher

Grade 6 = Intermediate

Grade 7 = Advanced

Grade 8 = Final

I had a look at the website of the main exam org in the UK (and commonwealth countries) which is 'The Associated Board of the Royal schools of Music' (ABRSM) but they don't seem to use those names now as far as I can see. (I stopped teaching classical grades about 20 years ago).

All the exam requirements are there, though, for all the grades - if anyone can be bothered reading through them and trying to match classical levels to fingerstyle to try and grade Kirk's fingerstyle lessons.

Personally, I think just two are needed for our purposes: Beginner and Beyond.

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