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The Dude

Solo's!!!!!!!

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I have never said anything about JUST using chord tones to create melody

I think this was the way I interpreted what you said, and that was the reason for my first feeling of "yeah, right... guy thinks he knows something". I felt you were arrogant... I was very wrong though, I was the arrogant one! :D

Reading everything you ever said about this again... I can't really see how I could interpret it that way, I guess prejudice was involved too. Another lesson to never judge after first "glance"... Though I don't wholly did so, I did take what you said to my heart (even if the thought were mostly "mhm, sure. *Irony*") and since it was in my thoughts, I eventually began too see that, whoa, the guy's right!

So my feeling changed to "the guy KNOWS". So well... Thanks a lot Kirk! :D

Geez, I really tend to ramble on in my posts... sorry about that, but it just is me. :yes:

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Keidon    0

Hi, I posted on this soloing thread earlier on & I guess it still goes on. Well the art of soloing will still have many and varied views. I think "KIRK's" view, having been "blown out" by his theories in plane-talk ten years ago, goes without saying. (But I will) The idea that you can solo over chord notes and analyze the chord tones as you play was a NEW idea back then, but now I understand the concept much better. I did say that was ten years ago though!

Interesting KIRK quoted "but I do think if you're just embarking on this you should learn all scales and fiddle around with them ... you'll get a sense of what it is to play single notes".

I stated back then something similar. My Friend said to me when I was Learning Scales to, "Learn all the scales you can & then FORGET that they are scales opting to look for the melodic lines within them. The scales alone will indeed sound boring in the most part.

For me learning scales did not only teach me what notes I could play, but what notes not to play. (as wrong notes) if it is not jazz that is.

Most teachers will eventually let you know that "The CHORD Rules"

The Beatles once sang a song "The Long & Winding Road" Surely they were singing about learning to solo on the Guitar!!! :guitarguy::whip::guitardude::laughingg::yeahhh: :yeahhh: :yeahhh:

Thanks KIRK for your wisdom on this, & for being able to put a very difficult subject into such understandable terms as in Plane Talk. You make it all sound achievable. You Legend.

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Justapicker    0

In addition to learning all the scales and modes and how they relate to the harmony you also want to learn and practice arpeggios, extended arpeggios and interval exercises and how they all relate to the scales and harmonies.

Create really simple solos to begin with. One note per measure is more than enough to make a statement if you choose your notes wisely. Choosing notes that are within the underlying harmony always "works". Make them more complex as you get a handle on what your doing. Add other chord tones, superimpose a D arpeggio over a Gmaj chord, if your moving from a G to an Am chord toss in a G# just before the move to create a little tension.......

A little understanding of music theory will help you out a whole bunch.

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Keidon    0

"Now that is just getting too complicated for the Beginners Guy". Nothing wrong in what you've said at all, but he will be several years from some of that stuff.

To "THE DUDE". Getting a good Teacher, One who suits were you are at right now, will give you the best direction and growth level as a player so that you don't get stuck - Which may be where beginners often end-up, Stuck. Sound familiar???

KB.:winkthumb:

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randomaire    0

I think when you're beginning, the words describing these things make it seem a lot harder than what it is, if you actually look at how Apreggio works its really not that difficult to understand, I think if you look at the actual notes on the fretboard when these terms are described it becomes completly clear.

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Justapicker    0
I think when you're beginning, the words describing these things make it seem a lot harder than what it is, if you actually look at how Apreggio works its really not that difficult to understand, I think if you look at the actual notes on the fretboard when these terms are described it becomes completly clear.

That's true. The terms can seem confusing to the uninitiated, just as computer teminology sound like gibberish to people who don't use them.

Arpeggio literally means "broken chord". Chords are derived from scales, using (for major triads) the 1st, 3rd and 5th note in a scale. To play an arpeggio you take that scale it's derived from and play those notes. For a Cmaj chord you take the C maj (aka ionian mode) scale

C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C

and play those notes (1,3,5)to create a C maj arpeggio. You can play them anywhere on the neck in any order.

A good exercise is to just record yourself playing a C chord over and over and then practice playing variations on the arpeggio as you listen to it play back. Create little melodies and riffs using all the C, E, and G notes you can find on the neck.

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Guest BuddyManx   
Guest BuddyManx
Hey Dudes, Probably A Very Easy Thing To Do, And I Know Loads Of Guitarists Who Can Do It, But How Comes I Cant Solo!!!!!!!!!!???? My Guitaring Has Improved Alot Over The Last Year (i'm Now Onto Songs Like Parisienne Walkways, Whereas Before I Was Proud Of Wonderwall) And I'm Not Far Off I Just Cant Go The Whole Way And Do A Decent Guitar Solo. Anybody Else Suffer From This Problem??

How well "locked In" to the backing rhythm are you? The critical thing is timing and one you have that the phrasing will suggest itself to you. I often start by trying to imitate the rhythm track strumming chord for chord and just go from there. Focussing too n=much on the notes can produce some very unmusical outcomes.

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garydavis    0

Try playing nirvanas one sting solo of the man who sold the world on NY unplugged... sounds really good but very simple, thats the firs solo I learned. But I'm not into much into that sort of playing.

But if you really want to become a lead guitarist, learn scales...

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Some great advice here regarding scales, chord tones and the like but I think I can simplify all that. A solo is nothing more than a way to give the singer a break and keep the song from getting monotonous at the same time. Basically all you're doing is "singing" the melody with your guitar. In short, a simple way to get started with solos, learn to play what the singer is singing, note for note. Build from there by putting your own "twists" into it. Go up an octave, down an octave, bends, vibratos, etc... Remember, the singer has to stop to take a breath now and then, so should the guitar. Took me a long time to figure that out. If I'd known it years ago it might have came easier for me.

Something to think about, anyway.

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Keidon    0
Some great advice here regarding scales, chord tones and the like but I think I can simplify all that. A solo is nothing more than a way to give the singer a break and keep the song from getting monotonous at the same time. Basically all you're doing is "singing" the melody with your guitar. In short, a simple way to get started with solos, learn to play what the singer is singing, note for note. Build from there by putting your own "twists" into it. Go up an octave, down an octave, bends, vibratos, etc... Remember, the singer has to stop to take a breath now and then, so should the guitar. Took me a long time to figure that out. If I'd known it years ago it might have came easier for me.

Something to think about, anyway.

Yeah, not bad advice, although not all solo's should sound like the melody, even tho I do a fair bit of that at times. It possibly could be said (again) that to play some notes that "you sing" in your head is a good way.

I do totally agree with "Breath" bit. Ssooo, Listen more to SAX solo's and that's exactly what you will hear

- "Breathing" - too many guitarists don't breath in their playing.

Just go flat-out with Sheets of notes. And remember - always have fun !!!

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coldethyl    0

I've heard it said that soloing is like making a statement with your guitar. But like you would if you were talking, you would pause every now and then. Your voice might vary in modulation as you speak. Sometimes when you vocalise a statement, you also emphasize certain things over others, and that's how soloing should be.

If someone speaks at (what may seem like) 100 mph, it's quite difficult not only to understand what they are saying but also difficult to WANT to hear what they have to say. But if they speak slow enough to understand, then it's more likely that the listener will take it in and absorb it. It's almost exactly the same as soloing with a guitar.

Hope I haven't confused anyone. Sometimes I have trouble expressing myself with words. That's probably why I'm not such a brilliant guitar player.:D

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Keidon    0

Nicely put Neil. Fully agree !

Like if it .............. Pauses.........and then speaks out.................and then says some more.........

like this a bit................... we love the sounds of silence............ as much as the sounds

............................. of the musical notes........that's truely awesome eh man............

So.

Be-do-bop-bop ------------ do-dum-de-do-dar-dar!!!------- bwe-bop-te-do-dat-dat

she-do-be-da-do-bop-day ------------------- bwa-bwa-te-do-bwa-bwa!!! ---------Tah-Dah!!!! - -:drinking::beer:

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krissovo    0

I cannot add to any of these wise words apart from one thing, from what I have been looking at with PT is well worth the money and I have learnt so much. All I need to happen now is that my fingers follow my brain.

Here is a list of what I found easy-ish, still trying to master them but I am almost there

Oasis - Live Forever, has a nice small solo using the C scale with bends, slides and vibrato

Jimi Hendrix - Purple Haze, this is a slide and vibrato monster the lead parts are good as well. The actual solo is a bit mental but good fun to play.

In fact any Oasis solo is quite easy, the easiest is the Inportance of being idol as that is very lazy.

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Keidon,

I meant that, mainly, as a starting point. Melodies are meant to be embellished. Very good point about the sax, or any horns for that matter. Guitarists should listen to horns for inspiration. Some of the best advice I ever heard was to "Imitate everything you hear".

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jhoita    0
I've heard it said that soloing is like making a statement with your guitar. But like you would if you were talking, you would pause every now and then. Your voice might vary in modulation as you speak. Sometimes when you vocalise a statement, you also emphasize certain things over others, and that's how soloing should be.

If someone speaks at (what may seem like) 100 mph, it's quite difficult not only to understand what they are saying but also difficult to WANT to hear what they have to say. But if they speak slow enough to understand, then it's more likely that the listener will take it in and absorb it. It's almost exactly the same as soloing with a guitar.

Hope I haven't confused anyone. Sometimes I have trouble expressing myself with words. That's probably why I'm not such a brilliant guitar player.:D

Hi Coldethyl

Never heard it explained like that.

Reminds me of Japanese Art ...... "Doesn't really matter how much you put into the painting .... what matters is what you are able to leave out."

Thanks for this thread everyone.

PS: Hi Kevin Bowling ....I'm with you ... I find it brings out the creative juices.... opens me up to the world ...helps to see a bigger picture. Thanks kevin

.

.

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Hey Kevin, nice to hear from, I haven't been on wholenote for a long time.

I know can give some valueble tip's, and also some of that sense of humour that I am used to hearing from you. Welcome good buddy.:thumbup1:

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Keidon    0
Keidon,

I meant that, mainly, as a starting point. Melodies are meant to be embellished. Very good point about the sax, or any horns for that matter. Guitarists should listen to horns for inspiration. Some of the best advice I ever heard was to "Imitate everything you hear".

It's ALL good !

Hey Kevin I hope I wasn't offensive eh -

Just bringing another perspective as many do.

Hey we have the same initials KB.

Have a good one!

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johnbullard    5

The bird said "yeah learn your scales then FORGET ABOUT THEM AND JUST PLAY"

The bird being Charlie Parker one of the greatest alto sax players to live on this earth.

FORGET ABOUT THEM AND JUST PLAY???? Oh I get it ..Once you get the scales under your fingers then you have them. So you don't need them anymore on that level. Now you need to just listen to the music and let your fingers do what they have been trained to do. They will respond to your ears and character if you let them. The scales if you practiced them enuff ways :up down: and patterns that is :135 246 357 468... then make up your own patterns; repeat patterns up the scale...Skip fourths skip fifths etc...there are a multitude of patterns to make. Here is an idea Play the major scale up note by note two octaves then start on the second note and repeat the exercise going up to the second note an octave higher. Then third, then fourth, etc... These ARE THE MODES more later

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si16    10
I love it ... would he perhaps have added: "follow the changes"?

I'd say definitely. Charlie Parker loved the progression on 'I Got Rhythm' so much he learned the fingerings for it in all 12 keys. He then wrote, along with many other musicians, quite a few of his own tunes using the rhythm changes in various keys.

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dogcow    0
What are some good "starter" solos for rock, I would love to play like Plant and Jimi (wouldn't we all). Any idea's of where to start. I realize by copying their solo's but what are some of the easier solo's to start with that would build me towards reaching that goal. Preferably somthing out of the Natural scale or Minor Pentatonic since I know those to very well. I can play them forward, backwards, increments of 2,3, 3 up 1 down.... and so on forever. Next, Major Scales in every key. wah-whoo.

"Oye como va" by carlos santa, the solos are not very fast so its easy to _start_ playing them at half speed. After a month I was able to play the entire thing at 3/4 speed and eventually full speed. Once you nail that move on to Europa by Santana it is just as easy and slower than oye como van but the song is basically an 7min long solo with no breaks, i have the first 1/3 of it memorized so far. Both of these songs are in minor pentatonic scales btw.

If you want to learn faster more blues rock riffs work on AC/DC solos

-dogcow

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OldG    3
FORGET ABOUT THEM AND JUST PLAY???? Oh I get it ..Once you get the scales under your fingers then you have them. So you don't need them anymore on that level. Now you need to just listen to the music and let your fingers do what they have been trained to do. They will respond to your ears and character if you let them.

Now that's how to really enjoy yourself! I think of scales like 'pathways to expression' rather than a technical exercise - when it flows, it can be like hands, ears and your musical soul coming together .:yeahhh:.

It gets even better if you are lucky enough to find people to play with who have the same sort of vibe goin'on... I'm blessed to have superb players at home in my wife and kids, I play with other musicians - but nothing comes close to trading raunchy solo's with my lovely wife!

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