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Clancy

The Recording Booth - Feedback needed

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This is directed to all the people who contribute to the Recording Booth forum.

I'm getting many compaints (well not really complaints) but comments lately about the Recording Booth not really working all that well in it's current format.

I have looked at a few different ways to reorganise things, but I think it's best to get feedback from the people who actually use it.

So, what would you all like to see changed or added? I realise that there are different needs here for players of all levels... we have finished works and players looking for advice and feedback... how could this be organised in more efficient way?

I have been looking at a script that allows members to link to or upload their music that can be searched and sorted in just about any way you chose... but I can't really see this working well when it comes to members who are putting up multiple versions of the one song for comment... should we have a section for finished works and a different section for people wanting advice? ... and for the members putting up multiple versions... how could we get this to work?

Also, the "Recording Booth" kind of took off in a way that was unexpected really. It really was for members of the forum to upload their music... we now are finding that people are joining up and not contributing in any other areas of the forum... how do we overcome this? Obviously one of these days we are going to run out of actual physical space to host all the uploads... do we just keep the finished versions of uploads and prune the older uploads that members have just put up for feedback?

Anyway, I'm hoping this will be a thread that will help improve the forum... I can't do it alone... I need member's feedback to make it work... so please contribute!!

Clancy

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Hi Clancy,

:smilinguitar:

That's a big question! I think it works ok as is, but I can see that as more members come on board, and people post more tunes then it won't work as well. You have to maintain the health of your ecosystem.

One suggestion I have is that you could limit the bandwidth that people have to store their attachments. You could set a 20 megabyte limit or some such number. I've gone back and deleted some attachments I posted a while back to help reduce space. When you exceed your quota, you could get a warning message telling you to go delete previous posts.

There are also loads of way you could divide up the recording booth into sections:

* Experience level : beginner, intermediate, accomplished;

* Type of music: rock, jazz, improvisation, country, classical, original, Kirk's lessons;

* Now this might be risky and unpopular, but you might let users restrict the files they view regularly to their selected "buddy list". In other words, I could pre-select whose tunes I wanted to see pop up (ie. Kirk, Rockerbob, lcjones, etc.) Kind of risks creating snooty private clubs, :reallymad: but it might serve some people well who don't spend as much time here but want to stay up to date with their fan favourites.:winkthumb:

Those are a few ideas off the top of my head. Hope that helps get the discussions going! :isaynothing: :isaynothing:

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Depends on what you envisioned this section of the site to be.

I am ignorant of how web sites work but perhaps a time limit or total size would kick a post to an archive area. It would keep the current section from becoming congested.

After 6 weeks or once the section exceeds x size it would be purged to the archive section.

Clancy, you were part of development. Is it what you wanted? Do you want it to change?

Best regard,

Mike

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Thanks for the feedback Todd. It's not so much of a space issue at the moment... although it will be at some stage (by the way, what I mean by space is hard disk space) bandwidth is another issue.

The main issue I think at the moment... is that songs are uploaded and disappear off the first page of the Recording Booth forum before they even get more than a few looks or listens. It's a matter or reorganising... I guess the experience level could be a good way of organising things.

I'm not sure I could set it up to restrict the files members view regularly to their selected "buddy list". This is more of a permission problem (with the forum). I could however restrict users download limit on a daily basis, but this is not something I would want to do at this stage anyway.

Thanks for responding Todd, hopefully we'll get a good discussion going here now.

Clancy

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Depends on what you envisioned this section of the site to be.

I am ignorant of how web sites work but perhaps a time limit or total size would kick a post to an archive area. It would keep the current section from becoming congested.

After 6 weeks or once the section exceeds x size it would be purged to the archive section.

Clancy, you were part of development. Is it what you wanted? Do you want it to change?

Best regard,

Mike

Thanks to you too Mike. What I want it to be is a place where members can upload their music and get feedback. It just needs to be organised in a better way as it has been mentioned to me many times by different members. Once a song has been uploaded (depending on the day) it can slip into oblivion in a very short amount of time. We also can't really sort the recordings in any way at this stage. We can see all the attachments by a certain member but other than that we can't really bookmark a favorite attachment or see what has been newly added... we can see what has been replied to recently and some threads keep getting bumped up again and again but this is obviously not the best way to do things...

So, I'm looking for ideas.

Clancy

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The problem of songs/posts disappearing from page one before a substantial amount of people

get a chance to listen/read them is a very problematic one, IMO.

It seems that once a post is pushed from the 1st page, it is 'out of site, out of mind'.

The only way it will ever resurface, is if some daring soul ventures beyond that first

page and comments on it...

A division of the forum will have it's own problems, I think... This will force people to

rate themselves into a category. For some, I suspect, it would be an easy task. But

for most this would cause a conundrum, and perhaps discourage them from posting at all...

It may keep post alive for a longer period, but I suspect that the number of responses

will not increase...

IMO, the forum falls into 2 categories... Those that post their songs for the enjoyment

of others, and only wish to hear weather people liked them or not... And those that

post their efforts in order to get people's opinions on how they can improve and refine

their playing or recording...

At present, both are mixed together, and unless the poster specifically states that they

need an opinion or help, it is difficult to determine how to respond...

It is my understanding that, GfB&B is first and foremost, a forum dedicated to providing

a knowledge base for guitarists looking to learn and/or improve their guitar skills, and

should be viewed as such. Clancy and Kirk provide the environment, and we, as members,

provide the content...

Although space is provided to showcase our talents, the main strength of such an environment

is the ability to help others who come here seeking help... This is the way I view it, anyway...!!!

Perhaps, this is the way the Recording Booth could work better for everyone involved

in it... Set a section aside for those who only wish to showcase their talents, and make

available a section to those that need our help or guidance with their playing or recording...

Sorry for the long post, I'm just rambling...!!! :isaynothing:

Cheers

Ben

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Thanks Ben.

I think you're right on the button... what we really do need is two separate sections... One for help and feedback and one for showcasing. It's all mixed in together at the moment and I think that some beginners or even those just looking for advice on their playing are maybe feeling a little neglected because they are mixed in together with the players that are putting up slick finished works... I also think there are two different types of listeners out there too. The type that like to listen to the more finished works and those who are able to go and give advice.... Other beginners may listen to uploads but not feel like they are in a position to comment... I feel that way most of the time too. I'm not a guitar player and I can't comment on how someone is progressing but I can certainly listen to the slicker finished works and comment because they are not asking for help... it's a tough one, but I think two sections could work well. Maybe even leave the unfinished works in the forum itself and put the slicker finished pieces in more of a searchable database format... that could work... I like this, it's giving me a much better idea what is wanted and needed here.

Clancy

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Some good ideas so far. How about at the start of each week a sub-section of the recording booth is started and all new recordings for that week go in this sub section. That way members who only visit every few days find it easier to track down the new recordings. Also there would be less recordings so it's likely there would only be one page in each week and recordings would be less likely to disappear into oblivion. When there is a need to save space a few of the older weeks worth of recordings could be deleted.

Is there any way you could have a chart system where the most listened to, or best rated, or most voted for, recordings are listed giving a kind of GFB Top 20. This could change weekly depending on whether any of the newer recordings rated well. Don't know if any of this would be possible?

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Not to sure on the rating system, I have never been keen on rating anything in a community it creates a hierarchy I feel that is great if you are on top of the list but for the others they will soon lose interest.

This is a tough one for you Clancy, if we split the forum from the more accomplished finished items to the pieces that need some work then there might be a chance that us beginners could lose the ear of the more accomplished players who might only be looking for the finished article. So the beginners could still end up stumbling around on their own.

Going back to the archive method and adapting it slightly. How about that we just post as normal but at the same time we categorize the post in one of the two formats that have already been discussed. Then after say 10 days the post will drop off into a store of the different categories. These then can be linked and you can browse at your leisure what you are interested in.

I can already see a few issues here in the fact that what happens if you reply to the archived post but possibly it could be re-activated again???????

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The Recording Booth has shot off the map. I think it's great to see so many talented folks express themselves.

I'm sure there are several possibilities to over come the current situation. There could be a "Covers" section, "Original" section and a "Practice Sessions". It could be broken down further. But I think those are the main recording catagories.

I love to do the "Covers" as it gives me the opportunity to play songs that otherwise I would not play. The "Originals" is, I think, self explanatory. The "Practice Sessions" could be used by those wanting advice & critique on their songs and technique.

I would, though, have a stipulation. That those who post in the "Covers" and/or Originals also spend time and post in the "Practice Sessions" as a way of lending a hand to those who request advice and such. Some lyrical critique boards stipulate that you must (or should) critique 2-3 lyrics for every "one" you post. I think it a fair trade for the opportunity to post/upload completed works.

Les

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This is a timely post Clancy. I was just PMing with another forum member yesterday about frustrations I had with the Recording Booth, and how a piece posted could get tons of listens, but very few comments - such that I - or others - have no idea if people hate, love or just couldn't care less about their work. But it's really seems to be a crap-shoot, in that just one random comment can push your post back to the top and if it happens at just the right time, and there are people logged in listening that are interested in that kind of work, then it will stay up top for a good while, and it gets sort of self-perpetuating at that point. With bad luck, that random comment doesn't come, your work falls quickly off page 1 and it's history - and you feel like nobody cares about your work or the effort you put into it.

It's a tough issue to solve, but I think Ben's general approach is a really good one. I do think there should be a "showcase" section for polished works of players who just want others to enjoy their work, and another "advice wanted" section where the poster really wants critical comments and constructive criticism to improve his/her playing. I don't want there to end up being any kind of popularity contest in the only forum we have now to post to - where those who are popular get more so, and those just starting out or just not all that polished yet feel let down and depressed and basically give up because all the attention goes to the polished works. It can become a self-fulfilling prophecy to think you're unpopular, post less, and therefore get less attention and actually are less popular!

And I do like Les' idea of everyone contributing some help if they post works - often the players that have the best works can give the most tips, and I think they should at least help a few people in order to be able to upload to the "showcase" section.

The idea of maybe having a separate section for the first 3-7 days a work is posted - so it's kind of more in the spotlight with less chance of falling off into oblivion - and then moving the works into the more general sections is worth thinking about...if it's something that can be done.

And maybe we should be able to remove older works that are no longer looked at - unlike the current system where we can't edit posts after 30 minutes. That might help with the disk space problem.

Thanks for bringing this topic up Clancy - it's really good timing for it, IMO! :)

Jim

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From a newbie's point of view I would like to see:

1.) HELP WANTED

A. - Originals ( for playing technique, opinions, and writing help)

B. - Covers (for playing technique, opinions, or recording help)

2.) Showcasing

A. - Originals

B. - Covers

I'm not good enough to to be able to help someone yet so I don't respond to those posts after listening, but if I'm in the learning mode can learn alot from other's input and opinions. I will still listen to them.

If I just want to hear someone who is accomplished for enjoyment and motivation, then I think it would be nice to be able to choose from covers or originals.

If they could be broken down by original posting date or week, that would be helpful as well.

As for duration I think a personal limit to hard drive space, and reasonable time limits would be effective. I can't think it would be wise to let us all store our music on Kirk and Clancy's drives forever.

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I agree with rockerbob

Most things in life that seem hard , there is usally a simple answer for I am not being sarcastic . But thats how I live my life just find the easiest solution I wish I could offer more on the subject but after working a 14 hour shift ( my head hurts:crying2: )

Hilch

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Hi everyone, thanks for the feedback, there are some great ideas in there.

I think categorizing as broylestb suggested could work very well.

Jim, I have set it now so that you can edit or delete attachments (indefinately). The post editing limit is still there, but the attachments can be removed by the member at any stage. I also think the idea you had about limiting the amount of room each member gets for attachment storage is a good idea and something we may need to implement in the future if space starts to become an issue.

I'll get the recording booth split up into sections asap. We can then see if that solves some of the problems we have. If we are finding that certain sections are being ignored, we can look into it a bit more.

Still open to suggestions on this. I've been working on our forum radio over the last week but that is just about done now and I can look at the recording booth next.

Thanks everyone.

Clancy

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Clancy, slightly off topic, but whilst you're doing some 'mods'. It seems to me that the polls which run into multiple pages reduce the usefulness of the 'unread posts' link by causing the count to fluctuate wildy. Is it possible to separate them from the count?

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Clancy, slightly off topic, but whilst you're doing some 'mods'

LOL, I'm always doing mods. :)

It seems to me that the polls which run into multiple pages reduce the usefulness of the 'unread posts' link by causing the count to fluctuate wildy. Is it possible to separate them from the count?

Umm, do you mean a vote counts as an unread post? I thought I turned that off... I just went in and changed another setting. Let me know if that works or not and I'll look into it further.

Cheers

Clancy

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Thx. Clancy. Not sure if it's votes counting as posts or just the sheer number of posts going through those threads causing a big change when the thread is read. (I don't usually follow them so maybe that's why I get such a big change when I do eventually check one) Time will tell, I'll keep an eye on it. :)

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Thx. Clancy. Not sure if it's votes counting as posts or just the sheer number of posts going through those threads causing a big change when the thread is read. (I don't usually follow them so maybe that's why I get such a big change when I do eventually check one) Time will tell, I'll keep an eye on it. :)

Ah, I think you mean the unfortunately/fortunately and rock quiz threads... they are long threads but not actually polls. I can't really leave them out of the post count unfortunately. If I come across a mod that'll let me do it, I'll install it.

Thanks for the feedback anyway 737.

Clancy

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Is this asking why when you leave and come back in --it says something crazy like 155 posts unread since last visited-because I gotta tell you that confuses the HE double hockey sticks out of me too. Scott

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Hi everyone, thanks for the feedback, there are some great ideas in there.

Jim, I have set it now so that you can edit or delete attachments (indefinately). The post editing limit is still there, but the attachments can be removed by the member at any stage. I also think the idea you had about limiting the amount of room each member gets for attachment storage is a good idea and something we may need to implement in the future if space starts to become an issue.

Clancy

Thanks Clancy!

I think it's wonderful to be able to delete/edit attachments. Not only can we remove outdated ones, but if we generate several versions after feedback just to get the mix right, etc. (which I have been known to do! :isaynothing: ) it would be nice to only have the final, best version on the thread, not multiple ones that could confuse readers a lot.

How do we edit attachments to posts? (the edit button is still gone after 30 minutes - right?) And if we delete attachments altogether, is there a way to indicate they've been removed by the thread author, or will they just be missing?

Thanks for all this work on our behalf Clancy - it will really help and it's really appreciated!!! :yeahhh:

Jim

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Hi Jim and thanks,

I think to delete attachments you go to your UserCP and then down to attachments and then click the checkbox next to the attachments you want to delete and then just click the delete button.

I'm not sure about whether it just goes missing... I don't have a normal member account with attachments that I can test it out on. I guess I'll have to get a member with attachments to try it out.

I assume the attachment does just go missing and the post says edited by (member name) which wouldn't be perfect... I'll have a think about how that could be refined a bit.

Cheers

Clancy

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Hi Clancy

I just tried this and the attachment just disappeared from the post with the following message at the bottom:

Last edited by Misty2u : 1 Minute Ago at 05:09 PM.

Hope this helps.

Tracy

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Hi Clancy,

I'll try it out also, since I have a bunch of attachments I could get rid of. I'm guessing that it will just say "edited by" at the bottom - but I think we'll all get used to that after a little bit. Maybe a sticky thread about it would make it less confusing.

EDITING TO ADD : I just deleted the first and third set of takes from my "Clapton Pedal Blues" thread (because they were too loud and too soft in the lead respectively) and it did just say "edited" at the bottom and the attachments were "disappeared"... The only confusing thing will be people referencing the "2nd set of tracks" in the posts, since there are only one set now! But again, after a thread has been around a while, I think that will be OK.

Jim

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Ok, I've got the radio out of the way and a few other things I needed to do, so I'm ready to split up the Recording Booth forum.

I was thinking that it could be like this:

Parent forum: Finished Works | Showcasing

Sub-forum: Original songs

Subforum: Covers

Parent forum: Recording advice|help

Parent forum: Playing advice|help

I might also move the songwriting forum down to the recording booth and put a section on songwriting (with the ability to upload) there.

Any thoughts on this before I go ahead?

Clancy

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