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Jove d'Ark

Amazing What the New Generation want

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Jove d'Ark    0

Hi Kirk,

A a music tutor to very young children I am constantly ammazed at just how many hunger for the Tunes from YORE. I believe the intrinsic human spirit even within very young children is fed up with the garbage that is masquerading as todays MUSIC. All that Violent rap crap and noise that no-one understands.

I am constantantly recieving requests for Smoke on the Water and the Ol'Satchmo favourite ..What a beautiful world.

Cheers

Jim Scott

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D-Dawn    0

Smoke on the Water ..lol...I get tired of hearing that one from my 13 year old! But if it gets him to play willingly then I am all for it!! :yeahhh: Now he wants to learn Blackbird...too cool :winkthumb:

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Jove d'Ark    0

As I said even children are sick of the violent hateful garbage masquerading as Music these days.. I am endlessly amazed at just how many kids want to play the music I heard some 35 years ago. Surely there is a social lesson to be heard here by all adult society. As The ancient adage goes..From The Mouths Of Babes....Comes truth.

Maybe its not the Kids of this world causing so much social Ill but Rather the adults????

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cshude    0

Much of what I play is from before I was born or when I was very young- most of what is out today has no value. We are not going to be humming Tool songs 25 years from now. The Beatles, however, will still be going strong.

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8LU3    0

by noise no one understands i assume youre talking about metal. and i really really think you should listen to some and ACTUALLY listen before you judge the music so. people get metal wrong all the time.

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WernHalen    0

This is a very interresting topic... and it can make a lot of people very hot under the collar... [smilie=4,11,12]

I believe it has a lot to do with melody, the band wagon and people are not honest about the quality of music... I'll get to each of these in turn... :yes:

Ok here goes... way back inthe days of yore the musicians that made it in the music world were the true musicians... the guys who learnt to play an instrument and was exceptional at it. The main reason for this was the fact that getting the music published was expensive and people did not have the infrastructure to distribute the music very easily... i.e. Internet, Radio, TV, Music stores etc. People in general did not have the money to pay for the records back then either. People are conservative by nature, this was more pronounced back in the 60's and 70's than it is now. this also forced the next generation of music i.e. Elvis, the Beetles, CCR, Deep Purple, Queen etc to make good quality music otherwise they would be shot down as CR*P much easier and even by the people that actually listened to them. Nowadays the music almost plays second fiddle to the performance or the act that can be put together. One of the reasons I have for this is the fact that people with brilliant voices are told, at Idols, that they just dont fit the image... I wonder what Jethro Tull would have been told at the Idols? or Freddie Mercury for that matter :eek:

Now what I am saying is not that all new music is bad and that there are no more good songs being written. Metallica, The Darkness, Good Charlotte, Creed, Lifehouse, Seether, Live, Evanescence etc. still write beautifull melodic songs. (this was just chosen form my band list, by the way and there are many others out there in many other genres) :smilinguitar::guitardude:

One of the things that has surfaced over the last couple of years is the cloning mentality of the music industry, Britney does good with a couple of songs and then suddenly Christina Aguelera, Charlotte Church etc gets on the same band wagon. Same with eminem, after he started rapping big time rap was the in thing and nowadays you see white rappers everywhere... Not all of them are good however. Punk Rock and metal is a very good example of this, especially in my town. We have a couple of punk rock bands and a metal band or two. These guys are not musicians, they make a lot of noise and they cant sing... They have a huge following, because of the fact that they remind the people of Simple plan, Greenday, metallica etc. but that does ot make them good... By Cloning i am not saying that If you play a hardrock song you are trying to clone Metallica. It is the people that truly try to clone the sound and look of another...

Lastly I think that it has a lot to do with people having false ideas about their abilities. Parents are to blame for this I think. I dont watch Idols as I think it is a bunch of hog wash, but the odd occasion that i have seen it I have been faced with a boy or girl crying their eyes out because the judges said they cant sing and their parents said they could. :isaynothing: :isaynothing: Now who is the judges to break the hearts and dreams of all the stars out there? :isaynothing:

Lastly I would like to add that I have respect for the older music as well as the newer music. As long as it has strong melodies and harmonies... I listen to hard rock, metal, rock, contemporary, jazz, blues etc. but I find that I switch off the radio when they are playing a bunch nonsense...

In the end It is the melody that makes the best stick out... :yes:

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737blues    0

I think it's pretty simple really. The corporation decides what is going to make the money this month and the spindoctors of the media make it so. It has to change often 'cos kids get bored quickly and are constantly looking for more 'bang'. That usually means the more trashy and offensive it is, the more likely it will sell.

P.S. I love metal, real metal that is ... Sabbath, Iron maiden, etc!

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WernHalen    0

737, I agree unforunately the youth is easily influenced by things the media throws at them. What I find insterresting is that most genres they like eventually die but every couple of years the rock, hard rock and metal genres surface again even if it is with a little twist...

Just goes to show that the real music is uthereal... :yinyang:

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cshude    0

8LU3- no offense meant to any Tool fans. I recognize that those guys can really play, no question. My point is that much of what you hear on the radio will not have the staying power of the Beatles (or the other "supergroups"). WernHalen is right when he says it is all about the "melody". My dad always made the comment that the bands whose music would always be popular were the ones whose songs everyone could sing along with while driving in their car. And for the most part, that seems very true, and is a key reason why bands like the Beatles, the Who, Queen, etc. have had the staying power for so long. You only need to hear their songs a few times and you can sing the tune for the rest of your life.

As far as metal goes- I'm a fan of early 80's metal, especially Anthrax. I think it's their sense of humor that always got me.

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737blues    0

Its quite logical really. Good quality endures whilst rubbish quickly dies. Great from a corporate point of view, throw out the old and sell the punters something new. Just consider what happens with all the movies aimed at the young. Watch the movie, buy all the overpriced cheap trash from it and six weeks later do it all again for the next one. I think the same thing is happening right across society.

I agree wholeheartedley that when it comes to what makes the good music so, it is the melody.

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nocat    0
I think it's pretty simple really. The corporation decides what is going to make the money this month and the spin doctors of the media make it so. It has to change often 'cos kids get bored quickly and are constantly looking for more 'bang'. That usually means the more trashy and offensive it is, the more likely it will sell.

P.S. I love metal, real metal that is ... Sabbath, Iron maiden, etc!

I couldn't have said it better, my friend... The big boss dictates, the underlings quickly

scatter in obedience and the masses consume...!!!

Conspiracy....???

FACT...!!!

I've been alive for a while now, and in my life I've seen some disturbing changes...

I remember, as a teen, individuality was of the utmost importance, and we would

challenge every attempt to make us conform..."If I have to wear a tie, the knot is

gonna be somewhere in the vicinity of my navel, and the average size of a melon...

And purple with green polka dots...!!!".

We used to look forward to the new album by ______, because we knew there was going

to be some stuff in there we hadn't heard before...!!!

It seems to me that, with only a few exceptions, the offerings we get to choose from

today, are basically regurgitations of what has already been done... Or stuff that makes

you wonder, "How is this possible...?!?"

Take a look at the music industry's top sales charts. Listen for 10 minutes of top 40

radio. And then ask yourself... How is this possible...???

Nothing ever happens for no reason... We live in a mass media generation, and one

thing the media has always done well is influence young impressionable minds... In

subtle ways... Kids don't dress weird because they want to be different. They do so

because this is what the media promotes. And who controls the media? The owners

of the media... And who are the owners? 6 or 7 corporations that basically also own

the planet...!!!

In a way it's kind of a sad statement that kids have to resort to the 60's and 70's for

inspiration, but that is pretty much when the change started to happen and the ground

was being broken...!!!

Can it be true that we are now at the stage where everything has been done...!?!

*steps down from soapbox*

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Jove d'Ark    0

8L3U writes,

by noise no one understands i assume youre talking about metal.

And you assumed wrong kid!

I teach music and in doing so I have to have a very open mind and ecclectic taste. Music no matter whether it is R and B, Blues, Punk, Rock, Heavy metal, etc has to have INTEGRITY. Meaning that the performers have to prove they have done thier homework and are not just Intervals masquerading as Harmonic creativity.

Then there is this greatly misundestood thing called wisdom. And I will bet my life that if you seriously persue the understanding of our great Love MUSIC, when you in decades from now, are at the age I am now, you Will Not be humming Tool.

And I am not saying this in anyway to offend you. I was once young and I understand what grabs you. But as I said if you truly aspire to great Musicality, one day you will admit that what grabs you now was really quite primitive.

And WernHalen has very correctly pointed to some very serious woes within the world of..Popular Music.

As to cloning I think what is really being said is what nocat referred to. Individualism. It seems to me that the music industry these days is set up to replicate a formula, and all I am hearing is that young bands can no longer write there own stuff. All we are hearing now for the most part are second rate covers. Also known as Sampling I believe. We come upon this new term Sampling as though it is will somehow legitimise new musical science. all it is doing is hiding the truth. The truth that greed keeps churning out deficient undereducated musos structured to a formula, and who cannot produce anything original, legitimate or worthwhile. They can only sing a very poor imitation of the original.

The only other thing we are Hearing is mostly Gangsta Rap. And what is this. Some serious criminal element who have made thier lolly by peddling violence and drugs, try to Legitimise themselves in the eye of the beholder by procuring a Music Recording studio, which allows them to masquerade as Legitimate honest businessmen, when in fact all they are doing is corrupting the young and gullible into flinging even greater sums of money into thier already bloated bank account. A bank account whose foundation was built by evil deeds.

And someone else here alludes to a very serious tragedy. Once upon a time the MUSIC was the ulitmate Importance and the Video or "Clip" as it used to be called was a secondary tool to convey the artists intent.

I defy anyone to tell me that in these modern times the Video has not become paramount and music runs a sad last.And what are the "Clips" these days other than vile pornography. Sex Drugs and Violence is the constant theme, and if you call this High Art, then sadly You have much still to learn.

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8LU3    0

wow, this thread is really heated. sorry about assuming wrong, i just get crap from people all the time about listening to metal and hem not being able to make out the different instruments and not being able to hear the singer because hes screaming. it really, really makes me mad.

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cshude    0

Has anyone noticed how the lack of originality in so much of today's "popular music" is paralleled by a similar lack of creativity in movies? Seems like everything that comes out now is either:

1) a remake (which rarely if ever lives up to the original)

2) based on a tv show

3) based on comic book/graphic novel

4) sequel made purely to try to squeeze some more money out of the "franchise"

I remember listening to a song someone made on soundclick.com called "Everything Sounds Like Coldplay". That pretty much hit the nail on the head in regards to what is played on the radio. I usually liked the songs that weren't released better than those that hit the charts. They are typically more musical and not "dumbed down" for the preteens that drive the pop music charts.

Ok, I think that's about it- almost gave me an episode of IED (which, in case you haven't heard yet, is Intermittent Explosive Disorder, formerly known as having a conniption fit or a bad temper. Apparently, the "victim" mentality has gotten to the point that it's not your fault that you can't control your temper- it's now a "syndrome". I think shrinks that spout this nonsense are second only to trial lawyers in my most hated professions list.)

Whoooooo. I feel better now. Later!

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tcliff    0
... I think shrinks that spout this nonsense are second only to trial lawyers in my most hated professions list.)

Whoooooo. I feel better now. Later!

Any psychoanalytic lawyers out there? :helpsmili

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Ballard    0

I agree with 737blues. It was in fact today's SHRIEKEXPLODEGWFGIUBWGIGB type of metal that turned me off the entire genre. For years I was ignorant; I thought that all metal was loud and simple and the vocalists shrieked satanic lyrics. Sort of like Lordi (the Finnish rock band that won Eurovision 2006).

My friend recently introduced me to real metal: Metallica, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Alice Cooper, and so on. I think it's awesome, and yet another chapter to add to the Webster's Unabridged Dictionary that is my taste in music. (To explain that, I'll say this: I'll listen to anything but country and gangsta rap)

P.S. To the guy who assumed that the OP was insulting metal, that's now how I personally interpreted his post. I think Jove d'Ark was reffering to ***** MTV-style rock bands such as Fall Out Boy, who have absolutely no musical talent. It's amazing how popular bands become by providing their fans with nothing more than a catchy, repetitive, 3-chord melody and lyrics that make Madonna look like Emily Dickinson.

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737blues    0
Has anyone noticed how the lack of originality in so much of today's "popular music" is paralleled by a similar lack of creativity in movies? Seems like everything that comes out now is either:

1) a remake (which rarely if ever lives up to the original)

2) based on a tv show

3) based on comic book/graphic novel

4) sequel made purely to try to squeeze some more money out of the "franchise"

Well, if it made money once, chance's are it'll do it again, and again and again .... :bored:

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WernHalen    0
Well, if it made money once, chance's are it'll do it again, and again and again .... :bored:

It will probably not make the same amount of money as the first one, but it will definitely make some money. That is the way they look at it i think. It is all about minimising their risks. Nowadays the movie houses are more into getting the FX right and getting the highest paid actors in the movie rather than the actual story line... :dunno:

I just want to say something to the corporations:

THAT IS NOT HOW GEORGE LUCAS BECAME ONE OF THE LEADERS IN THE MOVIE INDUSTRY... HE TOOK THE CHANCES AND IT PAID OFF...

That goes double for the record exec's...

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Jove d'Ark    0

All in all though folks I yearn for a time when we are evolved and spiritual enough to be doing things simply for the andvancement, quaility of life and enjoyment for the whole human race. There has to be more to us a a species than rape, murder and plunder surely.I mean look here at what Kirk is doing for us. Giving us inspiration and a wealth of knowledge as well as some very memorable music, But he is not fingering us for money every time we click our mouse. That is what really brought me to this place People like you who I am sure have much more value than cold hard cash.

Already this thread has brought out the deeper feeling and thinking of some. I am really quite sick of the fact that just about every muso is viewed as something vacuous, of no deep import. In fact many of us are well educated and care very deeply about what is happening to us all as a society and are deeply concerned for what the future holds for the real treasure of our lives, The Children.

As someone said the nastier and filthier it is the more it is marketable to children.

What happens to a society when entire generation or 2 of children grow up in such a savage environment.

But what would I know, I'm just a muso. Right.

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jimbeaux    0

Good discussion, everyone. My wife and I were talking about this subject a few days ago, and I was mentioning to her that the surprising popularity on the internet of JerryC's rock "cover" of Canon by Pachelbel may be because he's not only a (nearly) virtuoso rock guitarist, but the music itself was created by an expert composer. It's been so well received by guitarists, that probably 20 or 30 people have posted their own performances. Naturally some are better than others, but I'm just glad to see their interest in music of enduring value and quality.

If you'd like to hear any of them, you can see them at this link:

http://www.jerryc.co.uk/

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USGold    0

If they have any desire to play music-whats there in the latest junk (rap, hip hop, techno,pop) for them to play-it's all re-mix and record scratching--where the part for the guitarist or pianist to play in that?--no wonder they want songs that were actually performed by musicians.:brickwall:

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Jove d'Ark    0

...!!!>>but the music itself was created by an expert composer....!!!

Exactly bro. I cannot help but think of The Global View of the Japanese Race as a whole who Cannot create two sticks to rub together to make a fire, but once you give them a blueprint from which to work, they will take your idea to the sun and back and give it to refined a thousand fold.

The kid in the white T-Shirt has my jaw dropping and my heart grieving with envy, but without Pachelbels blueprint where would he be? Just another lightening bolt simply churning out Noise???

To create glorious music like all things requires a creative mind that has been honed to perfection by an understanding of the Rules of the game. And in Music the Rules of the game are The brilliant underlying Harmonic structures which so ably support a unhitherto thought of Melodic Line, which in turn cannot escape or be seperated from the Glorius Harmonic structure.

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8LU3    0

the only problem is that minds being "honed to perfection" is really in the eyes of the person molding this mind. depending on which type of music this person listens to or the type of environment he/she grew up in/lives in now dictates how their mind can be honed. whih is really why i think REAL gangsta rappers do what they do. they grew up in a horrid environment where selling drugs and being in gangs are the standard. all these other rich boys rapping is just wrong. they have had every opportunity and they are writing songs about how bad their lives have been, which is almost opposite. you just have to keep in mind that environment plays a HUGE role in the making of music.

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