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Fingers    0

What shape is a minor 7 and a minor 6 chord ? I ask because I saw someone playing a piano version of Eleanor Rigby, and they said they played those chords in the chorus where the words are "All the lonely peo---  ple , where d---o they all come from     ."

Em7 /    /    /, Em6   /  /  / , CM7/E   /     /      /,              Em / / /.

 

Something like the above.

 

In the Beatles version you can hear the chello in the back ground striking a 1 2 3 4 , pattern on the base note throughout.

 

 

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JanVigne    27

Obviously.

 

The layout of the fretboard doesn't allow every chord to be played in every position up and down the neck.  

 

However, you may begin by referring back to the CAGED chords shapes for your basic cord shape.  That means the shape begins by obviously belonging to a certain chord.  You haven't defined a chord, you've just asked for a shape.

 

The C shape won't be identical to the G shape in the same position.  So first determine your Major chord and its shape, which would belong to one of the five shapes in the CAGED groupings.  

 

Once you know your Major chord shape, you determine the minor chord shape in that position.  Since you're only altering one note from Major to minor, the minor chord shape will probably be closely related to the Major shape and can probably be found and fingered in most of the CAGED shapes.  That would allow you to play the minor chord shape over most of the neck.  

 

Adding a 6 or minor 7 means you still go back to your Major chord shape, adjust first for the minor note alteration and then search for your additional note.  Now you've altered the original Major shape sufficiently that you may not find a comfortable location for all of your fingers in all CAGED shapes.  

As you see from the links, you can only reach these chords easily in a few locations on the entire fretboard.  

 

You can backtrack your shapes, if you'd like, to see the process in reverse by using the links and subtracting one note from your chord at a time then entering the resulting chord (minor minus, say, the 7) in the search function.  Or start from the Major and do the addition/alteration and look at how each shape narrows down to what your fingers can reach in each position.

 

At times, you would be better playing a suggestion of the chord if you are not within easy reach of the full chord shape.  It all comes down to what your fingers can do and hit the next note in time.  

 

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Fingers    0

I didn't know that m7 meant minor chord plus the 7th note. That is now understood, thanks to you. But  I have one other question.

Does that mean for an Em7 we could use the E major shape altered to flaten the 3rd note (G# becomes G) which would make it an Em then add the seventh note of the E scale? The 7th note of the E scale is a D#. But I am seeing D natural in the chord diagrams. Can you explain why that is so?

 

Just for the sake of it have a look at this youtube video that got me interested in the m7 and m6 chords used in the Eleanor Rigby tune.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imj7FniRzyY&t=562s

 

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JanVigne    27

I'm going to say you are looking at the difference between the natural minor scale and the harmonic minor scale.

 

https://www.basicmusictheory.com/e-harmonic-minor-scale

 

https://www.basicmusictheory.com/e-minor-scale

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=natureal+minor+vs+harmonic+minor&rlz=1CAACAJ_enUS705US705&oq=natureal+minor+vs+harmonic+minor&aqs=chrome..69i57.8412j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=natural+minor+vs+harmonic+minor

 

Don't ask me why there are two minor scales, that is beyond the extent of what I consider "practical music theory for the guitar".  

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=practical+music+theory+for+the+guitar

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=practical+music+theory+for+the+guitar&rlz=1CAACAJ_enUS705US705&oq=practical+music+theory+for+the+guitar&aqs=chrome..69i57.8652j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

I just know there are two and you will play the natural minor in most cases.    This gives the harmonic minor an unfamiliar sound in most songs.  That would be a good enough reason for a composer to purposely select that scale.

 

The note from the harmonic minor is, in my playing, an optional note which doesn't get hit on very often.  It makes slides and bends work more fluidly in some songs or it can be used as an accent note which doesn't totally sound off key.  Discretion is the key there.  Don't overdo the note selection or you'll wear it out.  Use it to prick the ear's of the listener more than sticking with it constantly unless, of course, you're intent is to make the listener aware of a scale/tonal combination they are not familiar with.

 

There may be a member more well versed in theory who can help you out more with why there are two minor scales.  Otherwise, you might try Andrew Wasson; http://andrewwasson.com/  Over the years, he has become a go to person for an explanation of theory that doesn't require a degree in music.  In other words, the practical stuff you need to know to play and not the stuff that get letters behind your name.

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JanVigne    27

Think of "practical music theory for guitar" the same way you might look at a carpenter's speed square.  

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=carpenters+speed+sqaure&rlz=1CAACAJ_enUS705US705&oq=carpenters+speed+sqaure&aqs=chrome..69i57.6768j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

I know lots of hammer swingers who barely finished high school yet they "get" the stuff they need to build a three story house.  "The stuff" they need is not a P.H.D. in mathematics but the practical geometry and trig that they find in a tool like a speed square.  That gives them a few theories to work from and provides practical uses removed from all the other stuff they don't really need day to day.  

 

Same with practical theory for players.  A player doesn't actually need to know the why of most rules, just that they exist and can be used to their advantage.  They may be curious enough to go find an answer to why but, mostly, they just need to know the few rules that get them around their instrument.  A piano player won't have the same practical needs as a guitar player who won't have the same needs as a saxophone player.  

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Kirk Lorange    128
On 10/04/2017 at 3:06 PM, Fingers said:

What shape is a minor 7 and a minor 6 chord ? I ask because I saw someone playing a piano version of Eleanor Rigby, and they said they played those chords in the chorus where the words are "All the lonely peo---  ple , where d---o they all come from     ."

Em7 /    /    /, Em6   /  /  / , CM7/E   /     /      /,              Em / / /.

 

Something like the above.

 

In the Beatles version you can hear the chello in the back ground striking a 1 2 3 4 , pattern on the base note throughout.

 

 

 

I spent a whole lot of time putting together a section on chords for this site, Fingers. Why not have a look? You'll  learn a lot.

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