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carol m

Ears and Brains Please!

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carol m    64

I'm practicing with the Effects of Audacity and would like some feedback (!) if anyone is willing.

I am using the Tip Toe Blues lesson and have tried a few recording alternatives. I have interference from my playback CD player/tuner that I use so its hard to hear whether the Noise is on the recording or just what's coming through my CD player/speakers. I still get it even through headphones too.

Each sample is only 30secs or so long, and all from the original recording.

When I use 'Remove Noise', on the original, it goes muffled and also distorted on all of the 3 basic sample options. Adding +3 gain seems to fix the muffling effect of Noise Removal but I think there is still some distortion from using Noise Removal? I would like to know if the samples without Noise Removal are 'clean' enough to not bother with Noise Removal, or how do I remove noise without distortion.

Also, the last one I have tried out a few effects, and this result seemed to be the best, but there is an interference/buzz that happens at about 10 secs into it which wasn't there before I fiddled with it. I did noise removal on the last sample but it didn't get rid of this interference blip.

I am trying to achieve a smooth sound (not tinny especially in the upper string) and with good tone in my playing. How much can you improve the tone with the recording, and how, or do I just have to achieve that direct with my playing 'skills'?

Any feedback and tips are appreciated, thanks :)

TipToeBluesOrig.mp3

TipToeBluesOrig-NoiseRemoved.mp3

TipToeBlues.+3gain.mp3

TipToeBlues +3gainNoiseRemoved.mp3

TToe-6db.-20comp.echo0.2&0.2.mp3

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Tekker    1

I think the original with effects sounds the best. The noise is less intrusive than the artifacts added by the noise reduction IMO.

You did a good job with the effects, the reverb wasn't over done (which is very easy to do) and the compression added fullness. Great job. :thumbup:

You should be able to reduce the noise while recording, what is your recording setup? Are you using the line input on your sound card? If so, try increasing the volume the line input in your sound card's mixer. This will (hopefully) put your guitar volume above the noise floor so it won't be as audible. The volume of your recording was really low, so try increasing it as much as you can without clipping. You could also an Art Tube MP preamp ($30 or so) to boost the volume because the stock computer sound card is very noisy and the preamp should give more volume with less noise.

-tkr

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starsailor    20

Good to hear you Carol, nice playing I personally like the first one (TipToeBluesOrig.mp3 ), the noise reduction seemed to take rather than add anything to the recording and distorted the notes slightly with just the Effects the playing had more clarity, I think recording is trial and error I'm a long way off mastering it but it's good fun learning. you're doing a great job.

Best Wishes

Chris

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Jomi    1

Hello Carol,

Doesn't your software allow you to take 'profiles' of your background noise? I took a sample from your mp3 (during the quiet bit at the start) and Auditions let me take a profile and then remove only the noise in the profile, it's attached for you to listen to.

I use the Art studio V3 preamp that Tekker mentions and it dramatiacally improved the results through my soundcard, I get the best results by setting record levels as high as I can without clipping.

good luck.:)

TipToeBluesOrig.mp3

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carol m    64

Jomi, thanks for doing that. I did the 'Get Noise Profile' and then 'Remove Noise' on the clips I labelled Noise Removed and got some distortion which I notice you didn't get with yours - at least not nearly as much. Your version sounded as if you had added some echo or reverb I thought? And what is the difference between reverb and echo, I don't understand that really.

Thanks for taking the time to do that for me. :)

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carol m    64

Thanks for listening Chris. I've listened and fiddled with this so much today I'm going a bit doo-lally myself here (do people still go doo-lally in England?). I don't really know which one I think is best at all :dunno:

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carol m    64

Hi Tekker, I have the line in on max on the soundcard, but something I'll have to experiment with is the volume controls on the guitar itself. I had the volume turned way down because when I recorded with a louder volume it sounded 'brassy' ie tinny on the high notes and I wanted it to have a better tone. I have a graphic equaliser on the guitar too, and I had them equal but low for the same reason. So maybe up the volume, up the graphic equaliser with the treble lower than the middle and base, and experiment from there.

I tried increasing the gain more on the plain original (+9 or +12) and the 'noise' increased as much as the music so that's not a solution. I didn't think the noise was too bad, but its hard for me to tell because when I play back (or listen to CD's or radio) my system has noise even if the recording hasn't got it. There are lots of other appliances always on the go in our house, and I have to turn off all the lights before recording but I can't get rid of it all.

Do you know why I got the buzz at 10secs on the sample with effects, or how to avoid it when I do things like echo or compression? It isn't clipping. It wasn't on the original before adding effects. Also there is a high pitched click about half way through where someone turned on a light!

Thankyou for taking the time to listen to this. I have more questions but I'll give you all a break and save them for another day. :winkthumb:

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Hilch    0

WOW

You have been a busy girl ..

Lovely playing Carol

I found the best way is to play around with effects in audacity this way you get a good understanding of what can be done ..

If you don't like the effect just click the return key I think its called ...

You know the left pointing arrow ...

It was brilliant to hear you and your quite a guitarist

Trev..:)

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Tekker    1
Hi Tekker, I have the line in on max on the soundcard, but something I'll have to experiment with is the volume controls on the guitar itself. I had the volume turned way down because when I recorded with a louder volume it sounded 'brassy' ie tinny on the high notes and I wanted it to have a better tone.

Ah, then there's a big source of the noise. Crank up the guitar volume to where you get a good signal but no clipping and back the line input volume off a little too.

I have a graphic equaliser on the guitar too, and I had them equal but low for the same reason. So maybe up the volume, up the graphic equaliser with the treble lower than the middle and base, and experiment from there.

Yep, that's exactly what I would have suggested. You can also tweak EQ after recording, but it's best to get a sound you're pretty happy with before hand. If it's sounding brassy or harsh (ie, ear piercing) then this is likely caused by distortion in the high frequencies, which is probably why it sounded better when you turned the volume down. Distortion is a lot harder to improve after recording (you need special tools for this), so it's best to get a good neutral sound while recording, then you can make adjustments afterwards during mixing.

I tried increasing the gain more on the plain original (+9 or +12) and the 'noise' increased as much as the music so that's not a solution.

Once the guitar and noise are recorded together, raising the volume will increase both by the same amount. So at this point you can't change the relative volume between the guitar and noise, this has to be done while recording.

Do you know why I got the buzz at 10secs on the sample with effects, or how to avoid it when I do things like echo or compression? It isn't clipping. It wasn't on the original before adding effects. Also there is a high pitched click about half way through where someone turned on a light!

I'm not sure. It sounds like fret buzz, but you're right it's not in the original recording at all. Very strange. Try adding just one of the effects at a time until you find the effect that is causing that sound.

Thankyou for taking the time to listen to this. I have more questions but I'll give you all a break and save them for another day.

You're welcome, and if you have more questions, fire away. :D

-tkr

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starsailor    20
Thanks for listening Chris. I've listened and fiddled with this so much today I'm going a bit doo-lally myself here (do people still go doo-lally in England?). I don't really know which one I think is best at all :dunno:

Yes Carol I go Doo-lally on a regular basis, especially when recording, I did one the other day and my Wife walked in and offered me a cup of tea and ruined it, so I did it again and my son walked in to pass on a message, so that went as well. So I did it again and although we're surrounded by countryside we have a workshop next door and they started a lorry up halfway through my recording and I got this constant hum through the second half of the track. I gave up after this attempt but I'm doing some more this afternoon putting a sign up on the door and it's Sunday so next door isn't working.

I stick by the first one Carol but that's just my opinion, I liked it the best, you'll find that when you play the recording over and over you will keep picking up something you think could be done better. I think that's a natural thing to do.

Cheers

Chris

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Ellenback1    0

Carol, honestly, they ALL sound good...or perhaps it's just me? I do know that there is a difference between listening with headphones and listening through your speakers, as well, and I'm not sure that this has not come into play here at all, or not.

Just trying to muddy the waters even further! LOL

Elle

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Jomi    1

Carol,

Firstly - you're welcome.

I didn't add any reverb or anything else, I just used the noise removal - maybe you just sound better than you thought!!

I think the difference between echo and reverb is the spelling.:)

good luck

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Tekker    1
I think the difference between echo and reverb is the spelling.:)

Echo is the same thing as delay. It's like speaking into the grand canon and having it repeated back to you at a later time:

Echo....echo....echo....

Reverb is very fast delay, so fast that you don't hear a distinguished echo. Like speaking in a tiled bathroom:

Echoooooo

-tkr

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Aunt Doty    0

Lovely playing Carol. I liked the 1st one best and I thought the one Jomi did sounded nice also. Good luck with the recording!

Now I'm really nervous about posting because I'm certain mine will have lots of glitches.........and I'll be too dumb to notice!!!

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carol m    64

Now I'm really nervous about posting because I'm certain mine will have lots of glitches.........and I'll be too dumb to notice!!!

Don't be nervous, AD, just choose something that sounds good really sloooow and then use the delete button endlessly. Somewhere along the way you'll get one you can live with. I also found that because you can just keep recording over unlimited time, just keep going. If I stuffed up somewhere I just started again straight away until I got one without too many flubs :)

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carol m    64

OK good friends and helpers, get ready for a big belly laugh............I woke up today and realised that when I record on 'line in' (first track anyway).......I don't need to have my CD player/sound system on at all!!!!

This is what we call in our house having a 'toaster moment'. It's a bit like the 'penny dropping' or 'a light went on' but it has the advantage of the image of something actually popping up, and on some toasters, there's a satisfying 'ping' as well.

The next breakthrough in the thought processes was that if I explore down the back of my computer, I should be able to plug earphones directly into the computer and sideline my CD player and speakers all together. :yeahhh: I'll keep you posted on my explorations and results.

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carol m    64

Thanks everyone for listening and helping me out with a few extra pairs of ears. It's greatly appreciated. If it wasn't for you guys I would never have even thought about recording, or writing lyrics, or tunes or anything except plugging away in private with the same old tunes and practicing the same old stuff. :rockon:

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So cool to finally hear you Carol....nice playing!

The ears and brain thing kinda scares me from replying considering I have neither that are any good{yet}...But IMO I liked the first one the most...true sound albeit with the pc noise, Not sure what to offer about that as I seem to have a noisy machine myself. Glad to see your enjoying recording, wait a year or so then go back and listen and be amazed at the improvement. :winkthumb:

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carol m    64
Echo is the same thing as delay. It's like speaking into the grand canon and having it repeated back to you at a later time:

Echo....echo....echo....

Reverb is very fast delay, so fast that you don't hear a distinguished echo. Like speaking in a tiled bathroom:

Echoooooo

-tkr

Thanks for the 'graphic' explanation. I'll experiment more with both. You say you don't mind more questions so here goes.

With the Compression Effect: the default on Audacity seems to be

Threshold (-12db)

Ratio (2:1)

Attack Time (0.2secs)

What do these things 'mean' practically speaking when using the Compression effects?

And underneath these options is a box checked for 'Normalise to 0db after compressing.'

I think I understand what that means, (maybe just adjusting back to neutral 'gain'?) but one time after I did some different effects which didn't work out well, I tried to get rid of them using the Normalise effect, but that did something extra and got rid of nothing. So what is the Normalise effect used for?

I really appreciate your willingness to answer my questions about all this techy stuff that you are so good at......yes, nothing wrong with flattery when it's deserved :winkthumb:

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