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Clancy

What's Hot... is not such a hot idea for the Members Showcase

Do you like the idea of a chart "top hits list" showing on the Members Showcase?  

1 member has voted

  1. 1. Do you like the idea of a chart "top hits list" showing on the Members Showcase?

    • Yes I think it's a good idea.
      7
    • No, I think it will discourage some members from posting. It's too competitive.
      14


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I think Les has many good points here. In my earlier post I mentioned hot or not. What is hot to one may not be to another. For instance, maybe someone does not care for a specific style of music genre, then that section may seem like it may suffer, but the experienced players and people who want to take a look will know if its something they enjoyed.

Its the "Whats HOT" term I don't care for. A play count should not define its merits, but reflect how others view it.

Only thing I think would be nice is a slightly different layout.

Example:

Other:

Composer: Title: Info: >play Feedback: Fav:

Composer: Title: Info: >play Feedback: Fav:

Instrumental:

Composer: Title: Info: >play Feedback: Fav: X

Composer: Title: Info: >play Feedback: Fav: X

What I am trying to point out, is a better world view of who is in the specific genre and reduce the page flipping.

Don't want to give you more work Clancy, forgive me.

Even if it stays the way it is, its still a great thing, because tunes don't fall away or intentional upping.

40000+ folks here know the pro players, if they don't click on a tune by someone, they might just miss the next thing.

eddiez

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Its the "Whats HOT" term I don't care for. A play count should not define its merits, but reflect how others view it.

Only thing I think would be nice is a slightly different layout.

Example:

Other:

Composer: Title: Info: >play Feedback: Fav:

Composer: Title: Info: >play Feedback: Fav:

Instrumental:

Composer: Title: Info: >play Feedback: Fav: X

Composer: Title: Info: >play Feedback: Fav: X

What I am trying to point out, is a better world view of who is in the specific genre and reduce the page flipping.

I'm not sure I understand Eddie. The composer should generally be the member who submitted the recordings (being originals) or do you mean if they are in the public domain? I guess collaborations may have a different composer.

The feedback is in the thread, it can't be in the members showcase part... well actually it could have been, but I decided on the thread feedback instead of attaching comments... that can be changed. This would mean that comments would appear after the postbit members showcase song field.

As for the fav X - do you mean adding the amount of members that have added that song to their favorites? This would be too tricky for me to work out I think, but it is a good idea.

Clancy

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learning to play music not just a guitar

ISN'T a popularity contest

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that Trev.

I think the problem here is that I tried to make the Members Showcase a part of the forum... looking at that now, I think that was a mistake. The forum is here for learning to play guitar... the Members Showcase was meant to be just that, a place where members could showcase their finished works... and in that way, the chart system could work well for the more experienced players (the pros here). It would be nice to attract more experienced players to the forum so that they could pass on their knowledge to the less experienced among us. I think the Members Showcase is a good way to do that. That's what is great about this forum, if we were all beginners here, we'd have a hard time learning anything.

Many members here are also members of Soundclick, they have a charting system there as do many other of these kind of sites.

Anyway, what I think I'll do is put a stop on the threads being created in the forum when a tune in added to the Showcase... this will keep the forum and the Members Showcase more separate... I'll set it up so that comments can be added to the Members Showcase submission instead. It'll work better anyway as the comments will be right there to see when you are listening to the tune and it will be easier to add your comment in there too.

I'll work on the comments section tomorrow... for now, if a tune is added there will be no thread generated, but from tomorrow on, you'll be able to comment directly in the Members Showcase.

Hope that all makes sense... It really wasn't until this was made public that we really started having a better idea of how it should work (and also what doesn't work).

Feedback always welcome.

Clancy

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Sounds good to me. With regards to the threads when new items are added to the showcase, I had noticed when you use the "view new posts" facility it was getting a little difficult to see past all the new showcase items listed. I think having the Showcase as a seperate entity, as it were, will be better.

I agree WW... and it was Kirk who brought that to my attention... I don't really use the new posts link (not sure why) so I didn't even realize that was happening... but I can now see that the forum was getting swamped with new posts from the "Members Showcase" and that wasn't a good thing at all. The more I think about it, the more I think separating the two is the way to go.

Thanks for the feedback WW. As always it's appreciated.

Cheers

Clancy

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Couple of thoughts.......

I think the chart is a good idea. And here's why.

It isn't a competition. It's an opportunity for a singer/songwriter - musician to see how their work is received by listeners, albeit a more or less locked in crowd here at GFB&B. ;) Of course, there are numerous sites on the net that allow just this type of feedback. But what I think is important is the feedback from this particular site is honest and among friends who will not hesitate to say, "hey that's a keeper" or "hey, that needs some work". I really don't think anyone has felt slighted by one song having more "page time" than another. Frankly, prior to the Showcase, it's been more the luck of the draw depending on how many songs have been posted on any particular day.

As well, breaking down genres is even better! It helps an artist pin-point their niche. Coupling play counts with genre is a great way for the artist to learn where their music is best received.

Not everyone is a singer/songwriter/performer. Nor does everyone have to be. If we look at the ratio of actual "performers" that consistently post their music, regardless of level of experience, it is very small compared to the total number of members. I think it's an opportunity for those in all levels of experience and who honestly want to know how they are doing, to pony-up and post. How many times have we all read where someone thought they weren't good enough to post? And we all encouraged or coerced them into posting only to find out they're pretty good at what they do! As this is a guitar learning site and learning guitar has more to it than just learning a few chords or progressions, I think having a Showcase with numbers is a good idea. It gives the author/artist indicators about their music. Face it, we're all learning and every new bit of information we get about our progress is another point for our team. Another "step" in the right direction.

Having a chart count over time is also a good indicator for the musician. In the recording section, as we all know, once that song has moved to page two, it's pretty much relegated to the delete folder. So while a song may garner a goodly number of hits in the first few hours of page time, once it gets to page two and beyond, it's history. The artist does not get a good feeling for the song and how it will fair in the long term. Having the count, even if it's only for two or three months will give the artist that much more information about how well a song has done or could do.

If I post a tune and it receives a lot of hits, as it were, then I know I did something right. You all may not explicitly tell me I did something right, but the numbers will give me an indicator. Likewise, if I post a tune that receives only a few hits, which I've done many times, I know I need to work on something. Perhaps the hook needs work. And that's OK. It's another indicator of what I'm doing as a songwriter/performer.

I think there has been some pretty darn good songs posted in the last few months by a variety of musicians in a variety of genres. And just like the radio when a song is good and starts to get more air play, more people listen. Not a thing wrong with that. And not a thing wrong with the artist/musician to know about it! But unlike radio, where you have a producer putting together a radio program of what he/she perceives as "hits", our Showcase is by the people and for the people and that's who really matters.

Those of us who can take time to listen are going to do so. I really don't think we are so biased to include or exclude listening to certain songs because of a certain number of hits. Rather, I believe that most of us who do take time to listen will listen to any and all music that is posted. Or, at the very least, listen to as much music as possible for the time available. We may not always "leave a comment" but that doesn't mean the song or work wasn't good.

I'm putting my money where my mouth is. If you're a guitarist/musician, questioning yourself about whether to post a song you wrote to the Showcase because you think you or the song is not good enough; or feel you'll be over-shadowed by other players , PM me. I don't care about your experience level. I'll tell you why I think you should post your music. I'll tell you why, if you are really serious about your guitar playing and/or songwriting, posting to the public forum is a release and opens a whole new venue to work your craft. I'll give you the pro's and con's about posting your "own" work if you have never done so before (no covers). And in the interest of complete fairness, I will not listen to nor offer any thoughts about your music until after you post it, and then, only if you wish.

So for what its worth, I think the Charting Feature is a plus.

**

LC

I agree with Les on all points here. I'm having a hard tme staying neutral now... :(

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Morning Folks!

Well, I've only done one collaboration so far. No originals. And right now, my recording capabilities are in dire need of repair.

How does the counting work? Does it count when you hit play, when the song is downloaded to your player? If downloaded to the home PC, and the owner plays it a lot off line, how do those plays count?

If it counts from when the song is played or "connected", but a person dislikes the song from the start and stops the play, does that count?

Someone mentioned about if a musician is serious about his stuff.....well, this forum includes beginners that can be intimidated by some of the playing of some of the other members (we are truly blessed to have some of the players here that we have) If that advanced player is that serious about his/her music, then post it on one of the other sites that have a rating system. Post it here, too, so we can listen or at least post a link.

If the not-so-advanced players are wanting to test the waters here, post it and hope that someone will say something constructive, whether it's on the forum or in a PM.

I don't think any grading system or scoring system is needed. Let everyone play and learn, no pressures even if the pressure is brought on by themselves.

(stepping down from soapbox)

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Reading LC's reply knocked me off the fence I was straddling, fell onto the "like it" side. Numbers are just numbers, but any kind of feedback is always welcome.....Just my op's.

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I was not on my computer this weekend so I didn't find this thread until this morning and after reading all of the posts I find a lot of very valid points on both sides.

Everyone has stated their opinions very openly and honestly and often with much emotion (as you should when you have something that you believe in strongly). And through out the conversation you can see the deep respect that everyone has for the others opinions.

At first I thought that counting would in fact inhibit some from posting, I know I have been reluctant to make my first post. But after listen to the respect shown and given to all by the members of this forum my reluctance fades.

I do think that there should be a section that would allow us budding players to ask for and receive honest and open critiques of our work, but I have decided that the Members Showcase is well worth the effort and with the above change mentioned by WW is a good thing.

Sorry for the ramble, just got a little carried away.:oops:

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Lively debate this, I can see the point on the new posts, that did get totally swamped when the showcase was introduced, I usually go straight to new posts to see whats going on and if anyone new is introducing themselves but all that got pushed out, mind you the only way to test something out is to trial it in the public domain then sort out the teething problems as you go along. On the subject of what's hot it can be a double edged sword, on the one hand it could discourage beginners who are not as self confident as other members but on the other hand it could encourage members to strive to improve and be looked on as a goal to be reached, we all set ourselves goals, I personally think that is the only way to improve but it does depend on the individuals World perspective. The feedback on songwriting and recordings has always been a good part of this site, everybody works together so that all members can improve, I don't think a chart would undermine the Spirit of the site as we all want to help each other with improving our guitar skills and I can't see that ever changing.

Cheers

Chris

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I don't think a chart would undermine the Spirit of the site as we all want to help each other with improving our guitar skills and I can't see that ever changing.

I agree, I'm also now leaning to the like it side. I don't think it will in anyway change the atmosphere here. I love this forum, and the stuff I learn from it. Does voting for "yes its a good idea" make me unconsiderate to beginners? I don't think so, I'm a huge beginner myself. Hearing the top recordings would only motivate me more to do stuff.

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Hey folks,

Yep. It's me again. But I'm not going to bore you with another commentary on anything. :) Rather, I'd like to tell a story.

Some months ago a new member joined in the GFB&B family. The player is of extraordinary talent in both guitar and vocals. The player is a proven professional and many of us oggled over the talent displayed. I, for one, was literally in awe of this player. Had I not had a family, I'd have been on the first jet to sit in and learn first hand from this musician. And I feel I would have been welcomed without hesitation. I had correspondance with this player several times. The player listened to some of my work and offered advice which just blew me away. We exhanged niceties, talked music and guitar playing. I was even invited to exchange some Rickenbacker 12 string handiwork with the musician for a tune being worked on. But that never panned out.

The player added some great business insight and personal ideas into the pool of knowledge on the forum. The player did so in a humble manner, however, explained things in such detail only a professional would know. The player was open to questions if asked and did not mind offering encouragement to others less experienced. The player hasn't been on board for sometime now. Frankly, I miss the rapport and fellowship of talking with this great talent.

I don't even come a miles breadth close to the proficiency of this musician but I'd like to think that those of us on GFB&B who have decades of playtime can offer the same kind of encouragement and rapport to those less experience than we.

And thanks for listening again! Just call me ratchet jaw. :)

**

LC

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Hey folks,

Yep. It's me again. But I'm not going to bore you with another commentary on anything. :) Rather, I'd like to tell a story.

Some months ago a new member joined in the GFB&B family. The player is of extraordinary talent in both guitar and vocals. The player is a proven professional and many of us oggled over the talent displayed. I, for one, was literally in awe of this player. Had I not had a family, I'd have been on the first jet to sit in and learn first hand from this musician. And I feel I would have been welcomed without hesitation. I had correspondance with this player several times. The player listened to some of my work and offered advice which just blew me away. We exhanged niceties, talked music and guitar playing. I was even invited to exchange some Rickenbacker 12 string handiwork with the musician for a tune being worked on. But that never panned out.

The player added some great business insight and personal ideas into the pool of knowledge on the forum. The player did so in a humble manner, however, explained things in such detail only a professional would know. The player was open to questions if asked and did not mind offering encouragement to others less experienced. The player hasn't been on board for sometime now. Frankly, I miss the rapport and fellowship of talking with this great talent.

I don't even come a miles breadth close to the proficiency of this musician but I'd like to think that those of us on GFB&B who have decades of playtime can offer the same kind of encouragement and rapport to those less experience than we.

And thanks for listening again! Just call me ratchet jaw. :)

**

LC

Hmm Les, thats quite mysterious. :D

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Hey folks,

Yep. It's me again. But I'm not going to bore you with another commentary on anything. :) Rather, I'd like to tell a story.

Some months ago a new member joined in the GFB&B family. The player is of extraordinary talent in both guitar and vocals. The player is a proven professional and many of us oggled over the talent displayed. I, for one, was literally in awe of this player. Had I not had a family, I'd have been on the first jet to sit in and learn first hand from this musician. And I feel I would have been welcomed without hesitation. I had correspondance with this player several times. The player listened to some of my work and offered advice which just blew me away. We exhanged niceties, talked music and guitar playing. I was even invited to exchange some Rickenbacker 12 string handiwork with the musician for a tune being worked on. But that never panned out.

The player added some great business insight and personal ideas into the pool of knowledge on the forum. The player did so in a humble manner, however, explained things in such detail only a professional would know. The player was open to questions if asked and did not mind offering encouragement to others less experienced. The player hasn't been on board for sometime now. Frankly, I miss the rapport and fellowship of talking with this great talent.

I don't even come a miles breadth close to the proficiency of this musician but I'd like to think that those of us on GFB&B who have decades of playtime can offer the same kind of encouragement and rapport to those less experience than we.

And thanks for listening again! Just call me ratchet jaw. :)

**

LC

Yep, Baretta is quite a talent isn't he? It's a shame he doesn't visit any more. I think that if the members showcase can attract players of similar talent, and they then go on to help out others on the forum, then it will be well worthwhile. I think it's definitely worth doing for this reason.

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Just on sound click from my personal view point Clancy , I have 3 sound click accounts .

1. for music I am working on

2. for sharing my music

3. collaborations that I am working on

I have never looked at the charts and did not even know they existed till my brother showed me that a song I did was in there ..

I only have them after loseing every little bit of music I had recorded was lost when I got a virus on my PC .

Any I am sure everyone knows my point of view on this topic now

Trev

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Y'know - the more I think about it, I guess the bottom line for me is that it really doesn't make any difference. If the more established players like the feature and want to use it to gauge the reaction to their music, I can see the logic behind that....maybe they're in a position where they might actually be marketing their songs and it could be useful for feedback toward that end. Either way - charts or no charts - I'm nowhere near that level of proficiency and wouldn't be making a showing on the charts anyways, so I guess it really doesn't matter.

And Les - for the record, let me say that I'm deeply appreciative for the insight and experience that you and the other accomplished musicians here share.

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Maybe we should just add another spot called beginners.

Here one can add his or her recording no matter what genre its in.

Comments can come from all members if they choose.

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I thought about that Eddie, but really beginners can add their recordings in the forum and get feedback there in a thread as they did before... I think that's the best way to handle things... The Members Showcase is meant to be just that... a Showcase... a place for finished songs... I guess a listening room. In that way, a hit list wouldn't really be an issue.

Clancy

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Clancy,

Good point. I just don't think that beginner should not be discourage in posting a tune by all of this, nor feel bad or left out.

There are some very good players, writers, singers here, and some who should show up more often to fatten the mix.

Beginners and .................................Beyond. All learning something here.

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Just a note to any one debating on posting for the first time,

Don't let nothing discourage you, I can remember vividly my first recording post, "Scared .@##$#$#@!" but this forum and these members are here for one thing and one thing only... to improve and help improve in the art of guitar playing. I felt really out of place posting in the same area as the much better players, but I survived it and in doing so it has helped in my confidence, and the comments and offerings of tips is a great benefit, I know of no other place to get the quality of help as in here....post away, don't worry about charts or whos popular, or where you are in skill levels, just do it to reap the knowledge and experience.

Sorry for babbling...

Thoughts from one whos been there....Kenny

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Scared .@##$#$#@!

Were you Kenny ...I still get that way when I have tried so hard to get it right and know it isn't perfect . The secreat is to relax and have fun I think anyway ...

I'm not perfect , and I know it and being Scared .@##$#$#@! as Kenny says can be a good thing ...

Means your trying

Trev

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I thought about that Eddie, but really beginners can add their recordings in the forum and get feedback there in a thread as they did before... I think that's the best way to handle things... The Members Showcase is meant to be just that... a Showcase... a place for finished songs... I guess a listening room. In that way, a hit list wouldn't really be an issue.

Clancy

That's a a good way to sum it up, it will work, the best place to get feedback when your working on a song is in the members recordings forum, any things that need tweeking ie. sound, words, fills etc. can be ironed out in the forum and then the finished article can be posted in the Showcase, so beginners can post in the forum for feedback on a song and the goal is to showcase the finished article, sounds good to me.

I have one song that I've finished and put a melody to, I've started buying recording equipment and I'm working with my friend who is a Bass player and my Daughter on drums so hopefully I can get something mixed and posted, I agree with x4string and Hilch though, I am a bit nervous but it's exciting as well.:eek:

Cheers

Chris

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I personally don't think having a "hit list" is such a bad thing really. I think it would give others something to aspire to with their recordings. Everyone needs goals right. So having a hit list will give recorders a goal to aim for, and upon achieving that goal, a sense of accomplishment.

That's my take on it anyway!

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I voted no, I am doing this for fun more than anything and as much as I would like to be like GT, Rocker Bob, Jomi, LC Jones and the many more great players here I doubt I will get there this decade and I dont need my playing frustrations compounding by sitting bottom of a chart.

Mind you if it came in I would not leave and I would still add my bit now and again.

Would it be time to split the begineers and the beyonds?

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