Jump to content
Tekker

Community Mix

Recommended Posts

Tekker    1

To help others improve on their mixing skills, I suggest that someone who has recorded their own songs with the works, (vocals, guitar, bass, drums, keyboard, etc.) put up each individual track so that everyone can download them and create a mix of the tracks.

This is something that's been done on other recording forums (such as the homerecording.com forum) but they usually make it a mixing "contest" (sometimes with prizes). But I was thinking of this more as a helpful hands on mixing guide where everyone can offer critiques to help improve their skills.

We could either go the route of making the mix using only free effects so that everyone will have access to the same "equipment" and we can share our settings... Or just let everyone use what they have available, but then those who don't have a lot of money invested in software won't be able to recreate the sounds of those that have high end software/effects.

So, would anyone be interested in this? Would anyone be willing to put forth a recording for everyone to mix? The mix would have to be wave files, so it would be quite a download. Maybe all the files could be put in a zip file so we can download them all at once.... Just start the download and go play guitar for a while. ;)

-tkr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cshude    0

I'd love to have a go at mixing someone else's stuff. Count me in. I would think, though, that with the size of the files, you'd need to zip them and post it on a file-sharing site (something like yousendit.com).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
solidwalnut    5

I'm in. I have plenty of tracks for us to work with for a start. Do you want a full song with individual drum tracks or something with less tracks like a song designed without drums? Drum songs change the eq(uation)! That can be taken as 'eq situation', too! It's all my original work, so there's no plagiarism or copyright issues.

Clancy, I could use my server for the conduit or we can use the GfB&B servers, whichever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Matty22    0

How many people are likely to record the drums themselves? any times ive recorded drums live, we've sub grouped and mixed them on one mixer, and then fed that into a spare chanel on the main recording mixer (just because of the number of mic's used on a kit)

But id imagine if someone has the gear to multi track record a full drum kit (at least 6 mics) simultaneously then they probably dont need much help, lol

And as far as zipping them goes... For the people that dont know, DONT use windows "compressed folder" thing, the compression ratio is pathetic at best... Get WinRAR or WinACE or even Winzip. They ACTUALLY compress the files rather than just stick them under one name....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
baretta    0

Excellent idea, I can "lend a few tracks no problem. As you say they will be big WAVS, for example a full track can be as much as 40Mb. The moderators might not be too pleased. I would have thought most people would have a converter though i.e. Cubase, Cool Edit Pro will convert as you import. That way you can still upload in mp3 at lower bit rates to save the file size because it's only the mix you are practising. Also maybe not the whole song, just the middle 8 and so on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
eddiez152    129

This sounds like a super idea, this way us newbies can get a better understanding of how mixes not only get created, but play with the effects and changes.

Or watch how their done by other more experienced folks. A lot to learn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
solidwalnut    5

Tekker--

I gotta suggest that Eddie's right. I mean this site is full of people fairly new to recording, so we should use the KISS principle on this one and only use a handful of tracks and not get too complicated.

I also want to suggest that you're absolutely right. Unless we can agree on a format for this, it will just degrade into a 'mixing contest' or 'see what I can do?' thing and all of that.

Maybe we could just start with a small amount of tracks, get mixes and descriptions of their mixes from all posters. Maybe with some sort of time frame or a deadline? This way we could then all relax, have the same pool of links within a single post (maybe by starting a new thread) dedicated strictly for critiquing and questions.

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Clancy    36

I can provide ftp access for those involved to upload and download. Uploading to the forum itself would be a pain I think.

Clancy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tekker    1
solidwalnut

Do you want a full song with individual drum tracks or something with less tracks like a song designed without drums?

Yes, individual drums. But I was thinking more along the lines of a multichannel drum program that can export each drum to a separate track. Since this drum programs are the most common method for adding drums in home recordings. Even though they weren't recorded live, they still have to fit in the mix.

I gotta suggest that Eddie's right. I mean this site is full of people fairly new to recording, so we should use the KISS principle on this one and only use a handful of tracks and not get too complicated.

Why not put up several songs and then we can all vote on which one we'd like to do.

I also want to suggest that you're absolutely right. Unless we can agree on a format for this, it will just degrade into a 'mixing contest' or 'see what I can do?' thing and all of that.

My vote goes for everyone using the freebie effects. This way we all can compare and share settings.

Here is a list of the freebie effects plugins, so we'd have plenty to work with. ;)

http://www.guitarforbeginners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5735

Maybe with some sort of time frame or a deadline?

My vote goes for no deadlines. Let's try it in a more casual manner. Just a post a mix when you feel pretty good about it, or if you are stuck and want some advice on where to go next.... Or if you completely hate it and want to give an example of what NOT to do. lol ;)

This way we could then all relax, have the same pool of links within a single post (maybe by starting a new thread) dedicated strictly for critiquing and questions.

If Clancy would go for it, a subforum would be nice as it would keep all the postings from competing with the posts in the mp3 posting forum. Having everyone post in one thread could get crazy as there'd be all kinds of conversations going on at once for different mixes. In a subforum, you could start a new thread for your mix and all conversations would stay within that thread. Then you could update your thread as you make changes.

I would have thought most people would have a converter though i.e. Cubase, Cool Edit Pro will convert as you import. That way you can still upload in mp3 at lower bit rates to save the file size because it's only the mix you are practising.

Even when converting back to wave it will still have the same quality as the mp3. When adding effects (compression and EQ especially) it will really bring out the nasty artifacts in the mp3's. I've done a lot of tweaking with mp3's just for fun and personally I would rather go with the longer download time. ;)

I can provide ftp access for those involved to upload and download.

That would be awesome! FTP's are the way to go for large files like this. :)

For those who would like to upload a song, you could post an mp3 of the song (without any mixing done to it) and then everyone can vote on which one they want to do.

-tkr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
solidwalnut    5
Yes, individual drums. But I was thinking more along the lines of a multichannel drum program that can export each drum to a separate track. Since this drum programs are the most common method for adding drums in home recordings. Even though they weren't recorded live, they still have to fit in the mix.

I'd actually like to hear of a multichannel drum program that can export individual drums if you have one! If this is available, I want one. This would be the easiest way for all to participate, for sure.

Yes, they'd still have to fit into the mix. And we can do it that way. But I have actual individually recorded drum tracks that we might use if the multichannel program is not a possibility. They're beautiful in the fact that they have all of this other bleed from other mics that you have to deal with! hehe. But whatever works for all is fine for me.

Why not put up several songs and then we can all vote on which one we'd like to do.

Sure.

My vote goes for everyone using the freebie effects. This way we all can compare and share settings.

Here is a list of the freebie effects plugins, so we'd have plenty to work with. ;)

http://www.guitarforbeginners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5735

That makes sense. I'm not sure what to say about it as far as my situation is concerned. My recording rig isn't computer based, so...but the thing is that this is for learning...Give me your thoughts...actually, I'm quite happy to be very background with all of this and just help in the critique department. It's just that if I participate, it would have to be with different effects sources.

If Clancy would go for it, a subforum would be nice as it would keep all the postings from competing with the posts in the mp3 posting forum. Having everyone post in one thread could get crazy as there'd be all kinds of conversations going on at once for different mixes. In a subforum, you could start a new thread for your mix and all conversations would stay within that thread. Then you could update your thread as you make changes.

Very true. But rather than create a sub-forum we could use the new Collaborations forum and start a thread each time. The title of the thread = songname: mix critique or some such.

Even when converting back to wave it will still have the same quality as the mp3. When adding effects (compression and EQ especially) it will really bring out the nasty artifacts in the mp3's. I've done a lot of tweaking with mp3's just for fun and personally I would rather go with the longer download time. ;)
I can provide ftp access for those involved to upload and download.
That would be awesome! FTP's are the way to go for large files like this. :)

All so true. Bandwidth challenged people beware!

For those who would like to upload a song, you could post an mp3 of the song (without any mixing done to it) and then everyone can vote on which one they want to do.

Ok, I'm a little slow on this one...how do I upload an mp3 of a song that's NOT mixed?

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Matty22    0

Ok, I'm a little slow on this one...how do I upload an mp3 of a song that's NOT mixed?

Steve

That one stumped me too, the best i can assume, is record all the tracks, and save the mixdown as is, THEN once its decided on, go about making the individual tracks available

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tekker    1
I'd actually like to hear of a multichannel drum program that can export individual drums if you have one! If this is available, I want one. This would be the easiest way for all to participate, for sure.

My recording program Samplitude has one built in called Robota, but other than that I haven't used any other drum programs. Drums are my main instrument so I haven't really ever looked into drum programs.

But I have actual individually recorded drum tracks that we might use if the multichannel program is not a possibility. They're beautiful in the fact that they have all of this other bleed from other mics that you have to deal with! hehe.

Like you said it would change the whole equation. So as much as I love real drums, sampled drums would be a lot easier to mix.

I'm not sure what to say about it as far as my situation is concerned. My recording rig isn't computer based, so...but the thing is that this is for learning...Give me your thoughts...actually, I'm quite happy to be very background with all of this and just help in the critique department. It's just that if I participate, it would have to be with different effects sources.

You could always use one the freebie recording programs available. Such as Reaper.

But rather than create a sub-forum we could use the new Collaborations forum and start a thread each time. The title of the thread = songname: mix critique or some such.

That's right, there IS a collaborations forum isn't there? Yeah, that would work.

Ok, I'm a little slow on this one...how do I upload an mp3 of a song that's NOT mixed?

"Mixdown" and "mixing" are different processes. ;) So not mixed as in no effects and no tweaks, just mixdown the bare bones tracks as they were recorded.

-tkr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tekker    1

I've also got a possible song we could use as our mix.

This was used on homerecording.com as a mix contest, and this is my favorite song that I've heard from there.

It's got a bunch of different elements as it starts out with just vocal acoustic and string synth, then it brings in come percussion (congas, tymponies, tamborine) and then it kicks in full with drums, bass, strings. There are 14 tracks total in this song, so it would work for those using Kristal which has a 16 track limit.

Here is an unmixed mp3.

http://www.guitarforbeginners.com/tekker/zPosts/xfinsterx%20un-mixed.mp3

This song isn't mine, but if everyone wants to use it I can PM the guy who made it and see if he minds if we use it here.

-tkr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Clancy    36

If anyone wants to take the reigns on this, PM me and I'll set up ftp access. I think it probably needs an organiser though.

Cheers

Clancy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
solidwalnut    5

Tekker--

Hopefully there are some takers. I'm not so sure about me right now, though. I've got some stuff going on. But I'd definitley like to get to it eventually.

The link wouldn't work for me. If it's still there and the trouble's on my end, would you mind uploading the tune? Thanks.

And please, be the organizer! After all, it was your idea!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DemoEtc    0

It's a cool idea! Couple years ago I wondered why the big software companies don't try and license original tracks from like the Beatles or something. Or have the copyright owners release the separate tracks (for a price) so people could mix them for practice. I mean, it's not exactly like many people in the world will hear your mix of Strawberry Fields Forever, and go "Wow, did you write that?"

As far as huge files, there's those freebie places where you can upload large files for free and then have recipients notified so they can download them on the other end. Graphics and video guys sometimes use these places instead of Fedex-ing a disk over.

Just an idea

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tekker    1
The link wouldn't work for me. If it's still there and the trouble's on my end, would you mind uploading the tune? Thanks.

That's odd, the link works for me. :dunno:

I uploaded it here via the FTP that Clancy setup for me for my lessons. Try right-clicking and saving it and see if that works.

And please, be the organizer! After all, it was your idea!

OK, I'll PM the guy who made the song to see if we can use it here.

-tkr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
solidwalnut    5

Yah, it worked for me when I did the 'save as'. Just clicking on the link made my player give me the 'can't find the file, may be an outdated link' error. Who knows.

Anyway, this is great Tekker. Alot of great elements to mix. Sounds like a plan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
solidwalnut    5
It's a cool idea! Couple years ago I wondered why the big software companies don't try and license original tracks from like the Beatles or something. Or have the copyright owners release the separate tracks (for a price) so people could mix them for practice. I mean, it's not exactly like many people in the world will hear your mix of Strawberry Fields Forever, and go "Wow, did you write that?"...

It's a good idea in theory. If only everyone had such good intentions as you and I by using them for educational or for fun purposes. Except the owner's rights go a little deeper than that for the reason of protection of rights. Sure it's no problem to have the owner of the rights of the sound recording (a copyright noted by the P in a circle) license their tracks. But to control publication of them (read: distribution) the tracks are usually licenced to companies who make backtrack recordings. That company pays for those rights by paying whatever blanket fees plus fees on the number of duplications that they make.

They pay a higher premium to receive (if they receive, it's totally up to the owner) original tracks from which to make their own mixdown. The majority of time that would never happen (because of the control of them), and if the owner of the SR wanted to make a backing track of their original tracks then they would release it themselves. Most of the time the backtrack companies are paying the rights to perform the tracks to make their own mix of the tune for distribution.

Then comes the person or producer who wants to purchase the right to use that stereo mix for a CD project (the vocalist who wants to sing to a back track rather than hire live musicians for their project). I've produced three of these types of projects. So the producer or artist then has to pay the backtrack company whatever price they're charging for a copy of the backtrack, but then the producer or artist has to turn around and contact the owner of the publishing rights of the song (C in a circle) and pay for the rights to duplicate the song. It's basically the same thing as in the beginning. The producer or artist has to pay a fee depending on how many duplications of the song are going to be made. So they pay for a piece of paper that tells them they can legally do that.

Whew! All that to say the owner of the Beatles original tracks aren't going to licence the raw tracks for sale uncontrollably, no matter the price. It would create another huge area on the 'black market' for bootleg sales.

Tekker can contact his friend who probably has no problem letting us use his tracks. He'll probably want a cut if we make any money off our mixes, though!

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DemoEtc    0
It's a good idea in theory. If only everyone had such good intentions as you and I by using them for educational or for fun purposes. Except the owner's rights go a little deeper than that for the reason of protection of rights. Sure it's no problem to have the owner of the rights of the sound recording (a copyright noted by the P in a circle) license their tracks. But to control publication of them (read: distribution) the tracks are usually licenced to companies who make backtrack recordings. That company pays for those rights by paying whatever blanket fees plus fees on the number of duplications that they make.

They pay a higher premium to receive (if they receive, it's totally up to the owner) original tracks from which to make their own mixdown. The majority of time that would never happen (because of the control of them), and if the owner of the SR wanted to make a backing track of their original tracks then they would release it themselves. Most of the time the backtrack companies are paying the rights to perform the tracks to make their own mix of the tune for distribution.

Then comes the person or producer who wants to purchase the right to use that stereo mix for a CD project (the vocalist who wants to sing to a back track rather than hire live musicians for their project). I've produced three of these types of projects. So the producer or artist then has to pay the backtrack company whatever price they're charging for a copy of the backtrack, but then the producer or artist has to turn around and contact the owner of the publishing rights of the song (C in a circle) and pay for the rights to duplicate the song. It's basically the same thing as in the beginning. The producer or artist has to pay a fee depending on how many duplications of the song are going to be made. So they pay for a piece of paper that tells them they can legally do that.

Whew! All that to say the owner of the Beatles original tracks aren't going to licence the raw tracks for sale uncontrollably, no matter the price. It would create another huge area on the 'black market' for bootleg sales.

Tekker can contact his friend who probably has no problem letting us use his tracks. He'll probably want a cut if we make any money off our mixes, though!

Steve

Yah I was watching that show about Tom Dowd, and there's that one scene where he's fooling around with the original tracks to Layla - man that would be fun to sit with awhile, wouldn't it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×