[cshude]

Just curious- what do you come up with first typically, when writing a song: the music or the lyrics?

Personally for me, the music comes first, usually when fiddling around between playing songs. Then I can take it and massage it into shape. From there, I'll record it and then listen to it about 50 times to see what kind of vibe I get from it as far as the direction to take lyrics. Hopefully, a hook in the chorus will sort of pop out, and from there the lyrics flesh themselves out (hopefully without too much effort).

I have probably 10-12 songs that have been "rough-recorded" but are waiting on lyrics. I really need to get with someone who can write those for me.

Chris

[nagukush]

I've had this doubt for a long time too ! What comes first "The Music" or "The Lyrics" ? I just wanted to know what is followed generally in Industry. Just for knowledge sake, I've not reached a level, where I can even Improvise my Own Lick

Regds
Kush

[deezhammer]

Originally Posted by cshude

Just curious- what do you come up with first typically, when writing a song: the music or the lyrics?

Personally for me, the music comes first, usually when fiddling around between playing songs. Then I can take it and massage it into shape. From there, I'll record it and then listen to it about 50 times to see what kind of vibe I get from it as far as the direction to take lyrics. Hopefully, a hook in the chorus will sort of pop out, and from there the lyrics flesh themselves out (hopefully without too much effort).

I have probably 10-12 songs that have been "rough-recorded" but are waiting on lyrics. I really need to get with someone who can write those for me.

Chris

Totally with you Flushing!! I can come up with hooks and riffs no problem but lyrics have never come to me easily. I generally record several things and then burn them to CD and go for a drive and pop the CD in and then place a small digital recorder on the passenger seat in the car and I just sing whatever comes to mind while driving around. This can get expensive with gas prices the way they are but it seems to produce those "VIBES" you refer to. Whatever works I say.

[Cedric01]

I usually work with the music first. Lyrics, I have to be influenced by something, like a bikini contest. That'll do it!

[Lcjones]

To dispel the myth; there is no industry standard for writing a song/lyric. It's a personal preference kind of thing. There is no right or wrong way to start.

There is, however, a formula to building a lyric. And to that end, hundreds upon hundreds of books have been written and dozens of schools established. What seems very easy becomes very technical in very short order.

My personal preference is to find a hook or story line and let the words dictate the way the melody is created. In most cases, as I write, I build the melody at the same time. One tends to bring out the other.

In the end, I wouldn't dwell on the point. Write and/or play. Either one works. And as the final analysis, it is the end result that matters, not what road you took to get there.

Les

[nagukush]

thankyou so much for the Inforation, friends !!!!

Kindest Regards
Kush

[kmfresh1]

2pac would set in the studio, blast the track and drop the words on top of the music
and he would rap about what ever came to mind and keep this up untell
the words would fit the track. if that works for you,cool if not do it the other way around.as a DJ/guitar player I play around with LPs in much the same way
take music from one song @112 BPS -4/4 beat and mix that with words from a nother
@the same BPS and beat and it works. playing a guitar and singing the words is recorded the same way. first record the guitar part then play it back and sing on top
of that and when you feel the song come alive it would be a good time to record it all .

[Hey]

For me, it comes both ways... sometimes the lyrics comes first, or sometimes the music comes first. Or sometimes, at the same time

[faelin]

Usually, when I devise a new riff, or progression, I try to envision/emote what the music brings to mind. Then, try to find a relevant topic to write about. My issue is that vocal melodies and vocal dynamics escape me most of the time. Then I am left with a song that musically and lyrically fit... in a logical and rythmic sense, but no idea of how to actually sing it.
I have had times, too, that I will look through old writings from years ago that just "fit" what I came up with musically two days ago. So, I would say not to "trap" one-self in a box by trying to stick to a set-in-stone format. The song will be what its meant to be.

[brightstar]

I haven't yet written a song. Hell I'm still stuck on just learning a few chords so far. I'm slow. But that was a good question. I write some poetry occasionally so I wonder if I will always stick with words first because I've worked with words much longer than anything musical. Probably, seems like that makes sense. =P

[Chris C]

Originally Posted by brightstar

I haven't yet written a song. Hell I'm still stuck on just learning a few chords so far. I'm slow. But that was a good question. I write some poetry occasionally so I wonder if I will always stick with words first because I've worked with words much longer than anything musical. Probably, seems like that makes sense. =P

That's actually quite an interesting issue - how to make the transference from writing poetry to lyrics. I hope you share some of your efforts here when you get going with songs.

Superficially they're very similar skills, but I think that in practice they're probably very different. If you write the lyrics out to most songs they usually don't stack up to much of a poem - it's mostly the interplay with the music that gives them their life. Even the more obviously 'poetic' song lyrics tend to look a bit empty without the music. And some good songs have words that look like junk if you put them on a page, but they still work with the music.

I have the same issue - having written a bit of poetry years ago, and also other types of writing since. But all writing has different requirements. Being generally relaxed about using words, and handy with messing around with ideas in word form is certainly a very useful start. But I think we have to learn to let go of some old ways of doing business and learn a new one. Learn to let the music be the star and have the words more or less 'surf' on the music in a more abstract way.

Song lyrics seem to work more like the written equivalent of 'licks' and 'hooks' than as a structured narrative like a regular story. If you try and structure a song too much like a narrative or a poem the listener will miss half of it anyway, so it has to use different tricks to get the message across.

Exciting challenge though! I'm just starting to try my hand at songwriting and it's both great fun and seriously scary at the same time!

Cheers,

Chris

[Chris C]

Originally Posted by cshude

I have probably 10-12 songs that have been "rough-recorded" but are waiting on lyrics. I really need to get with someone who can write those for me.

Chris

Hi Chris,

Why not start a thread and stage The Great 'Write a Lyric Contest'?

Link to one of your roughly done tracks so that we can download it - and maybe add any subject ideas if you had some preferences for where you wanted to take it. Put down any other style suggestions, rules of the game or whatever, and then let us all have a crack at it.

I'd be game to give it a go.

Cheers

Chris

[Vic Lewis]

Personally, I've always found it easier to put music to lyrics rather than the other way around. I usually get an idea built around a random phrase and expand on that - when I get some idea of how the song's going, then I'll have a rough idea of what music's going to go with it. I'll have a melody in mind when I'm writing lyrics - then more often than not, it's a case of working out what chords I need. Only rarely do I get a riff in my head first then put lyrics to it...just doesn't seem to happen that way for me.

Melody lines and chords - in fact, all the music to a given song - are usually far more rigidly structured than lyrical flow. Words can easily be changed to fit the flow of a melody - not so easy to change the melody to suit the lyrics!

Then again, this is just my particular style of writing - maybe it's something I've unconsciously adapted and evolved over the years to fit my own needs. Maybe that's what you should be doing - writing lyrics to capture the mood of your music? Songwriting's like any other musical discipline - it needs to be practised, to be thought about, to be honed. It needs to be worked at!

I've given - and been given - this piece of advice more than once. Carry a small notebook and your writing implement of choice. Write down phrases that come to you in everyday. If someone uses a phrase in casual conversation that strikes a chord with you, write it down. Keep all those random phrases and images somewhere safe - one day, if you're serious about writing lyrics, you'll be glad you did!



Vic

[kmfresh1]

LOOK FOR THE HOOK, THATS A VERY EASY WAY TO GO AT THE WHOLE SONG WRITING
THING. TAKE YOUR FAVORIT CHORD PROGRESSON ,TAPE IT ,#FIND THE HOOK,
WHEN YOU DO THIS ,GO BACK INTO ALL OF YOUR NOTE BOOKS ,FOR AN IDEA
AND NEVER, NEVER ,NEVER !!! TRASH THE STUFF THAT YOU WROTE THAT STUFF WILL
COME IN HANDY WHEN YOU GET WRITTERS BLOCK. BUT MOST OF ALL, LOOK FOR THE HOOK AND BUILD ON THAT.IF NOT JUST GO TO BURGER KING AND HAVE IT YOUR WAY
HAVE IT YOUR WAY AT BURGER KING. NOW KILL THE BURGER KING THING
AND JUST GO W/ WHAT'S ON YOUR MIND OR IN YOUR HART AND FIND THAT HOOK FIRST THEN ADD VIRSE IN GUITAR PLAYING ie. BLUES OR ROCK YOU HAVE WHAT IS CALLED....CALL AND RESPONSE SONGS ARE LIKE THAT OF A 12 BAR BLUES PROGRESSON

[kmfresh1]

Go Out And Rent The Movie Hustal And Flow So That You Can Get And Idea
How It Is Done In The Hip Hop Game. Now I'm Not Asking You To Become A
Rapper Or Fall In Love With Hip Hop Just Asking You To See How The Hook
Was The Key To Making Hit Songs. Or Check Out The Movie Ray.....
W/jammy Foxx And See How It Was Done By The Late Ray Charls.