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Songwriting Ask any questions you have about songwriting here.

Forum Home > Guitar For Beginners & Beyond General Forum > The Workings Of Music > Songwriting > Words -


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  #1  
Old March 24th, 2007
Hilch's Avatar
Hilch Hilch is offline
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Words -

Yet another one from the vault that I call " Hilch "
This is directed at bosses ...But you can read into what ever you think would fit , music well ..If you have heard me play ......Lets just say I'm working on it ..

Words ....


Verse
I've never wondered why
So many people have to lie
I say whats on my mind
I don't read between the lines

Chorus
I say what I mean
And
I mean what I say
Hey hey ---Hey hey
I say what I mean
And
I mean what I say
Hey hey ---Hey hey



Verse
Peoples words are so cheap
Their meanings are not so deep
I never look into lying eyes
I never listen to destroying lies


Bridge
Don't close your minds
Don't spread your lies
Don't tell me why


Chorus
I say what I mean
And
I mean what Isay
Hey hey ---Hey hey
I say what I mean
And
I mean what I say
Hey hey ---Hey hey

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  #2  
Old March 24th, 2007
Vic Lewis Vic Lewis is offline
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Ok Trev I'll put my critic's head on, just let me practise the cynical sneer in front of the mirror - ah, got it.

First line strikes me as odd.....

"I've never wondered why
So many people have to lie "

Obviously you HAVE thought about it, otherwise you wouldn't be writing a song about it...."I've often wondered why" would set the scene much better.....especially, as in the next two lines, you're stating your point of view, that it's better to be honest...

second verse starts promisingly - the last two lines could maybe stand a little tweaking though, something along the lines of

"When I look into devious {or maybe "shifty" if you want to be blunt...) eyes,
I can see the truth behind the lies"

The bridge - this is where you should really tie any loose threads up and get the point across....

In my opinion, where you've got one triplet, you could do with two....it's too short to get your point across....

maybe something like

"I don't like closed minds,
I don't like hooded eyes,
You shouldn't even need to ask me why,"

maybe you could repeat that for emphasis, or add on something like

"So don't fob me off
With half-truths and lies,
And evasions you can later deny..."

re-iterating how strongly you feel.....

The bit that's really got me thinking though is the chorus - I'm not a big fan of "la-la's" or "hey-hey's" - to my mind, it gets me thinking the writer's run out of things to say - it can work occasionally, but you've got to be good to pull it off - "Hey Jude" by the Beatles, "Hot Love" by T Rex are about the only good ones that spring to mind....

But in a weird sort of way, this could work - if you treat the "hey-hey's" as a kind of throw-away line, in the same way that you'd throw out the BS that you're hearing from someone who's spinning a line.....

When you've written a song, always look at it as if you're writing a critique of someone else's song - what would I say about this song if I was asked for my opinion? Are there any weak lines? Is there anything I could have said more clearly, more concisely? Have I used any cliches that can't stand another airing?

As always, just MY opinion - I always enjoy reading your songs, you keep coming up with good ideas - this one could apply equally well to bosses (management, as I used to disparagingly refer to "them" when I was a Union rep back in the desperate Thatcher Years.....) or to politicians, who are equally well known for their lack of veracity.... you remember the old joke? How can you tell when a politicians lying? His lips are moving......

So keep writing (voice from offstage - "hah, try and bloody stop him!") but try and think things through and dress them up a little more....a little imagery never hurts,I know it's hard for a blunt-speaking Aussie, in these politically correct times a spade is probably a "garden maintenance entrenching and soil-redistribution tool"....nah, it's a bloody spade!



Vic

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Old March 24th, 2007
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Hilch Hilch is offline
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Thanks Vic

You have said something here that is so close to me trying to write a song and I quote , " a little imagery never hurts,I know it's hard for a blunt-speaking Aussie, in these politically correct times a spade is probably a "garden maintenance entrenching and soil-redistribution tool"....nah, it's a bloody spade!"

There is so much I want to say ..But constraints in this PC gone mad world limit me as I am no scholar and I do not use that as an excuse , but it does make my word power limited . By posting what I have done and getting feed back from people such as your good self , I believe I am starting to expand my vocab . Even if its' only a little by little ..

I write for my ears , as that is all I have { ha ha ha } ... There is one thing that does get on my nerves a tad ..When you listen to a song and the singer sings a line , and you end up looking words up in the dictionary , to me thats not a real good song ..

I read some time ago if people don't understand a word or a line then it has to re-written ..

Just my little way of trying to improve ...

Thanks

Trev..

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Old March 24th, 2007
Vic Lewis Vic Lewis is offline
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Something a wise man once said - "show me, don't tell me how you're feeling...." if you have to explain a line, chances are it won't work.....

then again, there's a line that springs to mind from the "Dragnet" series from when I was just a kid - "The facts, just the facts...." so how do you strike that delicate balance between adding more imagery and getting the point of the song across?

That's something we're all working on - there's a balance between plain speaking and dressing up a song (that's how I think of it...) with some imagery - and if you ever find that balance, you know you've got a good song!

and if you can bottle it and sell it I'll be first in line to buy some - we're all just amateur songwriters here, at times we all need help from the pros - I'll be the first to admit I've written some lines I thought were clever, and someone's pointed out why it a pile of .....whatever.......

I've said it before, I'll say it again - songwriting is an art, and like any other art, it has to be practised, smoothed out, re-written and re-read.....you'll never get anywhere if you're satisfied with that first draft! rewrites and rethinks are all-important - what may have been a mediocre song could turn out to be a really good song with a little creative input - someone thinking outside the box, bringing a new perspective.....

And like any other art or craft, you have to serve an apprenticeship - years and years of plugging away, fitting lyrics to music, fitting music to lyrics, just fitting everything together....it's not easy, and it's not an exact science - there are no rules, only rough guidelines.....

But then, someday, you find a good lyric - and a good tune to go with it - and that makes it all worthwhile! Like Ringo once said, "Got to pay your dues if you want to play the blues, you know it don't come easy...."



vic

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Old March 24th, 2007
X4StringDrive X4StringDrive is offline
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Hey Trev. I like the way your progressing or at least allowing us to see more of your structure. I see where your branching out more into a true song unlike the poetry style I'm still stuck with. Good work

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Old March 25th, 2007
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Hilch Hilch is offline
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Oh well ,

I'm trying , I'm slowly getting better { in my opinion } and I learnt my lesson a little while ago if you rememeber Vic about thinking I had mastered a pretty fab song ..
Rememeber that one mate ?
I only post to get feed back and see where I could improve my song as you know , if you take a look at " News " thread in this songwritting forum , I thought I brought some deep and powerful lyrics to the table , this time I just wanted to lighten things up a bit . With a song not so strong ...

Thanks Kenny appreciate your words mate ..

Trev..

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