Keeping your place in the music

justinthyme · #1 October 21st, 2006

When I'm trying to jam with backing tracks I often find myself getting lost, even when I have the chords written down in front of me. I don't know if this is a function of getting older and having decreasing concentration, or what.

Does anyone else have this problem?

Is it something that will improve with, say, increased familiarity with the fretboard or the tune itself?

Any tips to improve the situation?

allthumbs · #2 October 21st, 2006

Yes. With my dyslexia, it is real problem for me. I have to get to the point where I can hear the tune in my head from beginning to end by memory before I can navigate my way through it. It does get easier with time and some chord changes are so subtle it takes a lot of experience to get them. Hang in there.

SkyNet · #3 October 21st, 2006

I find backing tracks hard to play along with for much the same reason. A lot of parts are fairly repetitive and I don't want to count the bars if I don't have to.

I find it's mostly because there are no vocals. When jamming with buddies or playing cds it's much easier as the words help tell you where you are in the song and when to change. Singing along would probably help. I haven't tried this as I have an agreement with the local law enforcement specialists not to sing, lol.

Listening to the drum beat should help cause often they do a splash or something right before the change to the chorus.

On the other hand it could be because we're getting older.

justinthyme · #4 October 21st, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyNet

On the other hand it could be because we're getting older.

Heh heh. Thanks for that. Hey - is that the new Porsche 911 (as in 'dial 911') wheelchair??

Kirk Lorange · #5 October 21st, 2006

You do get to simply hear chords, Ian, a bit like knowing which gear you're in while driving ... you don't need to look. After all these years of listening, I can hear the changes as they come and go ... there aren't many that stump me anymore. If I know the key (I don't have perfect pitch) then I can tell you their names and flavors as they come and go; if I don't know the key, then I'll tell you what their Roman numeral and flavor are.

justinthyme · #6 October 21st, 2006

Thx, Kirk. So that just happened with time? Or might there be some way to speed it up a bit?

Kirk Lorange · #7 October 21st, 2006

Yes, time and a desire to be able to do it.

Here's an interesting site: http://www.good-ear.com/servlet/EarTrainer

Click the 'Chords', then 'Cadences' ... there are a few there to try your ear out on. There's a lot of other good ear training stuff there too.

It actually gets irritating when you can do it ... you listen to the radio or TV, any piece of music, and part of your brain is tracking the changes. It takes away a little of the magical mystery of listening to music. You also begin to realize how most music follows well worn progressions ... those 7 related chords and the way the minors can be 'majorized' and vice versa, takes care of just about every tune you've ever heard.

justinthyme · #8 October 21st, 2006

Thanks, Kirk - I'll have a look at that tomorrow before Indy starts!

bmurnahan · #9 October 21st, 2006

Those are great replies Kirk. Ear training is an often overlooked aspect of learning the guitar. Especialy these days with all the tab around. We are turning into a paint by numbers sort of method to play the guitar.

Back in our day when we still listened to records, we had to scratch them up by dropping the needle over and over on the same spot to figure out what we wanted to play.

I also suggest you spend time transcribing to develop your ear.

Best Wishes,

Bob

chorizo · #10 October 22nd, 2006

Thanks for the link Kirk. Ear training! Just what i needed. I was'nt even searching, just browsing. Now i have something to practice. That's the great this about this site. Thanks Justinthyme too for asking the question.

Donovan · #11 October 24th, 2006

Yea, thanks a lot Kirk. I'm doing surprisingly well on the "perfect pitch" trainer. Maybe it's because it stays within the same key, but I'm starting to hear those notes clearer now. My ears still need a lot of training though. The cadences are a must! Thanks again

Chaotic Kittie · #12 October 24th, 2006

Speaking of ear training... I remember that someone (Fretsource I think) posted a link to a site with an interval trainer... but I can't seem to find it again. Could you post it again please?

solidwalnut · #13 October 24th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinthyme

...Is it something that will improve with, say, increased familiarity with the fretboard or the tune itself?...

Well, not so much familiarity with the fretboard, but yes, more about familiarity with the tune itself.

For sure after a time you get to know how the changes are going down in just about any tune you hear--the progressions, too, as Kirk is saying. There's only so many ways chord progressions can be put together, and you'll soon start hearing how the progression from this or that tune sounds like...

But one aspect of learning to jam with backtracks is to study the track first: check out the progression and how many times they are playing through the certain progression. Once you jot down the progression sequence (okay, lesseee....they're playing progression A twice, then progression B once then progression C once, then back to A...), then you can break it down further and figure out what each progression is doing. It's a sort of divide and conquer scheme, and it's just like trying to figure out a song, only in this case you rarely have lyrics as a marker.

Then it's time to figure out how much you want to play over it. You might decide to play, say, more notes over progression C than any other, or do something that's 'repeatable' over progression A. There are options. And you're really gaining skills at being a songwriter!

I don't know if I'm hitting your point...let me know.

Steve

justinthyme · #14 October 24th, 2006

Indeed you are, Steve - all this is being filed away in the 'lil grey cells'. Thanks!

Kirk Lorange · #15 October 24th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmurnahan

Especialy these days with all the tab around. We are turning into a paint by numbers sort of method to play the guitar.

Doesn't notation do the same, Bob? It's certainly more kosher than tab, but I always remember a John Williams (classical guitarist, Segovia protege) documentary in which he said that his last goal was to be able to improvise, that he needed notation in front of him to tell him what to play. I was dumbfounded when I heard that! It was many years ago now, however, but what it told me at the time was that John's ear training needed work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmurnahan

Back in our day when we still listened to records, we had to scratch them up by dropping the needle over and over on the same spot to figure out what we wanted to play.

Yes, and I'd play 33 rpm albums at 16 rpm, pretty much half speed, which dropped the pitch down an octave so I wouldn't need to retune much, and scrutinize the sounds at half speed. Did you do the same? I'd listen to chords over and over and over again listening for the chord tones, then searching for them on the fretboard. That was great ear training ... you find a couple of tones, then you have to ignore them and listen for the others ... very intense concentration required for that!

I always point out that most of us can hear the I-IV-V changes in a 12 bar blues ... it doesn't require much time to be able to do that. Those are the major chords of the key; next add the relative minor to the majors, the vi; then listen for the ii and iii ... they're a little harder to zero in on, but only for a while. Once you can do that, the 'majorizing' the minors and 'minorizing' the majors is the next step. That pretty much covers it except the use of the flatVII chord ... like C in the key of D. They come up quite often in modern music ... an easily recognized 'outside' chord.