[Maddog54]

Ok so I've been at it now for a little over 2 months, and I know I've made some progress, been in a rut a couple times and now I'm wondering if my progress so to speak has slowed tremendously or come to a screeching halt? I kinda gave up on the Mel Bay method I started, basically because I'm having a load of trouble reading notes past the D-string(mainly because of the ledger lines confusing me).

So about 2 weeks ago, I started trying to learn chords, find songs I like with chords I know, and build a list of songs I practice playing(basically just to become proficient in chord changing).

Through all of that I've also been doing some lessons on here, but lately they just aren't sticking. So I'm wondering (other than continued practice, patience, and perseverance), what the most important aspects are when one is beginning. I guess what I'm trying to get around at this point is personal, professional lessons(mind you is mainly an issue of time due to my work schedule that I haven't done this already).

So someone or everyone, point me in a new direction (or beat me about the head with a newspaper and point me back from where I came...lol)

[gasbag]

I have been playing for less than a year and all I can tell you is what happened to me. I taught myself for a while until I hit a wall. It is rather hard to teach yourself something you know nothing about. At least for me.

I searched around my area and after advice from several music stores and other people I picked a guitar instructor. He has been a studio musician for 35 years and really knows his stuff. The best move I ever made. He has corrected a lot of flaws I picked up while "teaching myself" and has put me back on the right track to learn more about music in general and the guitar specifically. I can now play songs and use techniques I would never have learned on my own.

I would look for a good instructor, after some research, and go from there. It made all the difference in the world for me.

[johnnydoxx]

Here's my opinion based on my experience, FWIW.
I've been playing guitar, self-taught for 40 years, but only seriously for the last 6 months. I can play in public (where I can work around mistakes), and can record after an excruciating number of takes.

I think a teacher can add value to your playing prowess and progress. The trade-off is what the cost is worth in relation to your goals.

If you want to be the next Carlos Santana, then a teacher is probably the only way you are going to be able to get there eventually, faster than you could learn with a day job and only spare time to practice.

If that's not your goal, but you want to play some songs for your friends, I think you can learn by yourself with the internet.
There are lots of lessons here and many posts pointing to other site's lessons.
For that goal, you need to learn strumming and chords and changing chords. You can learn strumming from many of the lessons here. You can learn chords from Kirk's book or from other sources. You can learn chord changing from just doing it a zillion times.
Although a teacher might speed up the process and point out wrong things, the price might not justify such attention when viewed in the context of your goal.

Playing lead is a whole different matter - there are techniques that a teacher would know but you would have a hard time discovering by yourself. Simile all the effects like wah-wah, etc.

Playing finger-style can be learned from Kirk's lessons, but even in my case, it's a bit too advanced yet. However, I think it can be learned sufficiently from Kirk without the expense of a teacher.

One related concept is to have multiple practice aspects available, so you can vary the experience and not get into a rut. For example, you might practice scales one time (or part of a practice), practice chord changing another, practice bar chords another, play along with the radio another, play old songs just for fun, etc.
If you just play Mel Bay every day it's easy to see how that would get to be a grind.

I think there have been many threads on what to practice and people hitting a wall, so there's surely better advice in the responses to those than I can give.

[Maddog54]

Well, I wouldnt say I wanna be the next Carlos Santana since I really have no aspirations of playing gigs or anything like that...at least I dont yet. But I find when I start to do something be it guitar or anything else, I go at it full throttle and wanna know all there is to know. I guess my goal overall is to be able to play what I want when I want. Since I'm still new to it, I can remember the first day I started and when that amp started ringing....I think thats when I became a slave to this ax slinging culture

I'm just frustrated in trying to find a method that will take me to that level fast. I know this takes time, and I can see progress since day one, but it just seems like I havent really learned anything for like a week now and that's what is frustrating me more than anything. Is it everything catching up and still processing, so I'm struggling to learn anything "new" or I'm just not really trying anything that I havent done already?

I looked at scales today....that just baffled me. I see videos of these guys playing a C major scale and its like, first it doesnt really sound appealing at all, and second how do you remember all those and put the finger motions into it? At least that's from my perspective right now. But then I look at the pentatonic scale(which is just as over my head as the others 5000 or however many there are).

So I'm to the point that I cant read all the notes, have no clue about scales, and chord changes to and from C are driving me up the wall. Then there is the F chord, but that's whole other problem.

I think my next step is going to be setting up a solid practice schedule and see where this week takes me. I like to dedicate at least an hour a day and more when I can, so how long should I work on what?

[karcey]

From your description of your recent progress I'd say you're at the point where the majority of learners give up. Good thing you're prepared to stick at it.
I think your goal is too general.
From what you've written I'm not sure what sort of music you want to play. Try to expand on that for us if you can because it makes a difference when you choose what to learn next.
In the meantime I'd suggest you write down all the songs, riffs scales or whatever that you've tried to learn and then play them one by one making sure you can play them well. Then congratulate yourself on how much you have achieved. If these tunes don't interest you any more, then I think you may have to redefine your goals, and really spell out exactly what you want to achieve with the guitar. Many learners keep changing direction because they're not really sure what their goal is. Wastes heaps of time and leaves them depressed about the whole deal.
Teachers tend to quiz learners about where they want to go, and then keep them on track.
I don't pretend to give you all the answers in one post, but if you keep examining your goal, and sharing it with this forum, then sooner or later you're going to be heading exactly where you want.
You will learn heaps of chords, but as you need them for the song you want to play. Scales will come too, in time. Probably when you think you need some sort of mindless warm up exercise. When you do learn them you'll be surprised at how much extra understanding you have of the fretboard.
And by the way, don't put the rest of us to shame by learning too fast. If you know what I mean!!

[Maddog54]

I'm definitely not ready to give up, failure just isnt an option LOL

What type of music I want to play just might be the problem. I like to listen to just about everything. Most of what I've tried to learn to play so far includes AC/DC, Hank Williams Jr, Staind, Eric Clapton, Jethro Tull, Lynyrd Skynyrd, etc... Now I know I'm not progressed enough to try and pull off the solos in Freebird, or even close to the intro for Thunderstruck.

I guess what I'd like to play most would be something like classic southern country rock? LOL

[starsailor]

Hey Maddog, You've hit your first brick wall, you kind of have to get used to these when playing guitar, like Karcey said this can be the time when people give up, frustration is the new guitar players biggest enemy. You'll be ok though as you've got the right attitude.
I think you need some direction though, you know what kind of music you want to play so that's good, check out all the songs from those guys and try getting some of the chord patterns down, you have to break songs down to get the hang of them, revising small parts rather than trying to play the whole song all at once, slowly you'll be able to piece the riffs together, also stroll around the fretboard and see what tunes you can make yourself, you'll be surprised at what you find just messing around, if you have any recording equipment record yourself playing it's useful for keeping tabs on your progress.

Here's a site that might help you get a bit more direction and it has some lessons as well as a suggested practice schedule, you don't have to follow this it's more to point you in the right direction.

Guitar Solo - Scales, Chops, Licks, Technique, Improvisation, Guitar Lessons

In my opinion the most important thing is to have fun, when you practice try and finish on a high with a small riff you've learned or some easy 3 chord song just keeps you feeling positive, if you're having a really crap practice session it's best to walk away for a while and collect your thoughts, you'll always have good days and bad days, like a lot of guys here I'm self taught purely for financial reasons but lessons can give you focus so I'm not against them, I personally prefer being self taught as I can go in any direction I feel like going, I'm not brilliant though and can sometimes slack off a bit, if I had a Teacher that would kerb those tendencies so they're not a bad thing, just bad for my pocket.
Hope the link helps, hope you're injury's all healed now, good to see you back playing.

Best Wishes

Chris

[solidwalnut]

Hey Maddog--

One thing's for sure. There are about as many opinions on 'how to' as there are people playing. Let me tell you what happened with me.

I picked up the guitar at the age of 12 without a clue as to what to do. What I did was picked up a book of chords and learned all the basic ones--I wasn't real concerned about some of the off-beat ones.

I decided that what I wanted to do was to a) learn how to tune the guitar impeccably, and b) just learn how to switch between chords cleanly, learn to strum a basic strum well and sing at the same time.

And that's what happened. We're all different, that's for sure. But what I recognized was that what would be important was for me to learn to train my ear to hear what was important!

It's important to learn to tune your axe and keep it in good tune at all times, and to learn to listen to another guitar for how well that player is keeping his or her guitar in tune. This will help you tremendously in the future.

Secondly, the guitar is primarily a chord and rhythm instrument. So there's just no substitute for learning to switch cleanly between chords while playing a basic rhythm. The next thing to pay attention to is how you hold your pick and how to reduce pick noise while strumming. Those things are what are important to learn, and to learn well.

The real benefit from having a personal teacher is that they can not only develop a particular plan for you, and help you keep striving in the right direction, but they can also tailor a plan to help you have fun along the way. So, that's some food for thought.

But since I never had that, when I would reach plateaus (like you are now) I would get discouraged. The thing that kept me going was my drive to learn to do just what I already knew how to do. I wanted to become better every day. So don't be afraid to go over what you already know and become better. You'll find that you will learn a little something more about what you thought you already knew well.

So here's what I recommend to do at this point. Forget about scales and notes at this point. You mentioned that you became hooked when you first heard that ringing of the amp, so I take you're learning on electric? I would recommend learning first on an acoustic. I'm not saying you can't learn on the electric, though, so just work with what you have!

Next, learn 15 or so chords. Not memorized them, just have them handy. What you do want to memorize for now are about six of them. So take these chords and check out this lesson: Form Chords and Switch Between Them Quickly.

Tell us how your progress is, and we'll go from there.

Have a good one,

Steve

[Maddog54]

Actually I'm learning on both, switching back and forth depending on what I want to try to play at the time.....mostly all ac/dc on the electric since it sounds pretty lame on the acoustic. Acoustically, I've been doing chords and strumming, but my biggest pain there is getting the right strum patterns since I have trouble picking that out of a song when I listen to it. As of yet, I really have no preference other than the acoustic is easier to just pick up and play without having to hook up the amp.

I appreciate all the support guys...it really does keep me going!

I think I have a pretty good lock on the D, E, Em, Dsus, A, Am, Asus, and G chords right now..... I know C, but have trouble switching with it(which I keep on with repetition on that one).

Strum patterns are throwing me through a loop now, and I notice its more when I'm trying to sing it either aloud or run the lyrics in my head(if I even have the right pattern).

I just finished up an hour long chord changing practice with a new song inspired by the beautiful weather here in PA...something about all that sunshine got me wanting to play some Kenny Chesney....When the sun goes down(fairly simple chords and I know them all so that ended me with a good attitude).

Thanks again for all the feedback........you guys rock!

[tomg123]

I've pretty much been taking the same path solid walnut's talking about.

Strum patterns are nice but i would suggest to practice them separate not part of a song. Start out with 1/4 and 1/8 strums to a metronome then mix it up a bit.

When doing a song don't worry about a pattern so much just do as you feel. If a pattern emerges fine then use it, but you'll fine yourself adding an extra strum here and there anyway

[solidwalnut]

Tom's got a good point, Maddog. It's good practice to learn chord switching without any regard to rhythm. This gets you used to the mechanics without learning to walk and chew gum at the same time. Not only that, because you learn to switch more quickly without timing, imagine how swift and clean you will be when you are switching when you are going for timing.

After that, just take a basic strum, like the first one you'll find in the lesson Much Ado About Rhythm: Part 2 (the link is to Part 1, but that's an introduction and the link to Part 2 is at the bottom. The Folk and Country basic strum pattern is the first one there).

You can use this pattern for When the Sun Goes Down. Practic this pattern separately from switching chords, then bring the two together. You'll see how easily the two different mechanics can come together!

[parrotheada1a]

I offer just one suggestion. Practice SOMETHING every day. Even if it's just a scale, some riff that you heard in a song, or a different barre chord, pick up your guitar EVERY DAY. It will keep your interest up, and you will definitely see progress. Don't worry about speed so much as playing clean notes. Sloppy and lazy playing doesn't sound good slow, and sounds even worse speeded up. Myself.... I definitely have too much slop when I try to speed things up beyond my ability. I found that I needed to practice chord shapes, something that a teacher pointed out. You would be surprised how much easier it is to learn a song if your playing mechanics are solid.

[kaneashiru1]

Just have fun.. If you aren't enjoying what you're doing change it. Find some other way to practice that'd be interesting and enjoyable... Short and sweet...

[solidwalnut]

Originally Posted by parrotheada1a

I offer just one suggestion. Practice SOMETHING every day. Even if it's just a scale, some riff that you heard in a song, or a different barre chord, pick up your guitar EVERY DAY. It will keep your interest up, and you will definitely see progress. Don't worry about speed so much as playing clean notes. Sloppy and lazy playing doesn't sound good slow, and sounds even worse speeded up. Myself.... I definitely have too much slop when I try to speed things up beyond my ability. I found that I needed to practice chord shapes, something that a teacher pointed out. You would be surprised how much easier it is to learn a song if your playing mechanics are solid.

Some wise words worth repeating again and again.