[GuitarCanuck]

Novice twanger here.

I have been playing for about 2 months and seem to be getting the hang of things. I recently found a guitar website that mentioned thumb position as crucial to good playing. They suggest a low thumb (half way or lower) in a perpendicular position on the back of the guitar neck, stating that it is better for allowing the fingers to spread out.

I looked at my thumb position and mine is high and near horizontal on the neck for a C or G7 etc, more perpendicular for Am, E, Dm etc. I am changing chords quite well (some changes are obviously easier/cleaner than others) and when I tried the suggested thumb position I found it really hard to get any pressure on the strings and my wrist seems to go into a rather uncomfortable angle.

I would like to know what people's thoughts on thumb position are. Should I stay with my own (comfortable) technique, or switch to a more 'technically' correct technique that is awkward to me?

I'd be interested to hear what other people's thumb positions are.

[agent0064life]

Originally Posted by GuitarCanuck

Novice twanger here.

I have been playing for about 2 months and seem to be getting the hang of things. I recently found a guitar website that mentioned thumb position as crucial to good playing. They suggest a low thumb (half way or lower) in a perpendicular position on the back of the guitar neck, stating that it is better for allowing the fingers to spread out.

I looked at my thumb position and mine is high and near horizontal on the neck. I am changing chords quite well (some changes are obviously easier/cleaner than others) and when I tried the suggested thumb position I found it really hard to get any pressure on the strings and my wrist seems to go into a rather uncomfortable angle.

I would like to know what people's thoughts on thumb position are. Should I stay with my own (comfortable) technique, or switch to a more 'technically' correct technique that is awkward to me?

I'd be interested to hear what other people's thumb positions are.

Here's what I do, and I know it's wrong but I still do it because it's the only way for me to strum d chords and the like where a string needs to not be strummed. I just stick my thumb over the neck and mute whatever strings I don't want strummed with my fret thumb, and then when I need to do / chords like
-2
-3
-2
-0
-0
-2

I can use my normal thumb position and just pretty much press down with the normal D, so it's not any different

[allthumbs]

It is ok for your thumb to move with the different chords depending on the stretch you need. The more stretch, the further under the neck your thumb moves. Classical and shredders are all about reach so the thumb under is the more common position but, do what feels comfortable. I know that anchoring my thumb in one position would start bugging my wrist after a while.

[agent0064life]

Yeah I forgot to mention when I use the high E and B strings my thumb is at the bottom of the neck most of the time... like allthumbs said it depends where you're playing on the neck. Just let the thumb slide around to whatever is comfortable

[GuitarCanuck]

Originally Posted by agent0064life

Here's what I do, and I know it's wrong but I still do it because it's the only way for me to strum d chords and the like where a string needs to not be strummed. I just stick my thumb over the neck and mute whatever strings I don't want strummed with my fret thumb, and then when I need to do / chords like
-2
-3
-2
-0
-0
-2

I can use my normal thumb position and just pretty much press down with the normal D, so it's not any different

I use the thumb on string 6 (and mute 5) for something like a G/F# slash chord. Never thought of using it to mute strings for a D, I just try and strum those last 4 strings.

[agent0064life]

Originally Posted by GuitarCanuck

I use the thumb on string 6 (and mute 5) for something like a G/F# slash chord. Never thought of using it to mute strings for a D, I just try and strum those last 4 strings.

Yes the D chord is so much easier when you mute with the thumb then there's less concentration and more fun!

[Chris C]

Hi,

Thumb position is something that seems to tax quite few of us. I have a friend who was classically trained and he tried to insist that I should play with my thumb planted in the centre of the back of the neck, and not stuck up alongside where it usually was.

I showed him a series of pictures of every rock-n-rock great I could find, and every single one of them had their thumb alongside the neck in the 'wrong' position like me. That shut him up for the time being.

I did try forcing myself to use the 'classical' position for a while, and I ended up with severe thumb pan that took a couple of weeks to mend. So I stopped that experiment. However, these techniques don't develop just to make life hell for students, they clearly do have a use in certain types of playing.

Currently, I've settled for comfort - and what I find actually works - over style. And what seems to work for me is to start with the guitar sitting on the web of my thumb (like most of us do). It gives me a lot of height and finger length to work with - so long as I'm working in a relatively close and comfortable area. Once I start playing it modifies a bit. The neck lifts off the web and the palm a little so that it's all a bit freer and I don't get the hand buzzing against the high E string. For certain types of playing, and certain angles and distances of stretch, my hand just seems to naturally change position and slide round behind the neck into something close to the classical position. That feels fine too, but once the job is over it shows no inclination to stay there.

When you first start, the left hand tends to hold the neck in something of a 'death grip' but as you relax and improve then the thumb's job seems usually more about balance and contact than grip and pressure. Of course when you get to bar chords the thumb does need to slide round and apply pressure.

I'm always willing to be shown good reasons why other techniques are better. But until somebody can clearly explain to me why I should keep my thumb somewhere when it feels unnatural and uncomfortable then I'll stick with the way I do it now. If it's good enough for Kirk (check out his video lessons here) then it's sure as hell good enough for me.

Check this guy out too.

Naudo

He seems to know what he's doing. And you can see his thumb disappear round the back when he needs to use it that way, and then it pops back again. Looks good to me.

This is only the opinion of another learner though. If you can get a good explanation from a classical person, then do pay attention to why, how and when their methods might be better.

Cheers,

Chris

[Vic Lewis]

When I was first picking up the basic rudiments of guitar playing, a friend told me that there were certain chords where you need to use your thumb. One of these was the D chord, which he showed me as 200232 - before, I'd only known it as xx0232. Another thing he showed me was how to make barre chords more easily - by using my thumb to fret the bottom two strings for an A-shaped barre and the bottom string for an E-shaped barre. If I'm playing a 12-bar blues around the 5th fret, I'll start with full barres - but if I'm playing open chords and wish to switch to a barre, I'll probably use my thumb - I find it quicker, and with the added bonus (for me, I don't know about anyone else?) that it automatically seems to put my other fingers in somewhere approximating the correct places.

I do have large hands - maybe this wouldn't work for someone with small hands, but for me it's always worked fine - and it's good to have both options.

I'd say put your thumb where it's most comfortable for you - with time, and practise, you'll come to think of it as a natural 5th fretting finger instead of just something to hold your guitar with.



Vic

[allthumbs]

Originally Posted by Vic Lewis

When I was first picking up the basic rudiments of guitar playing, a friend told me that there were certain chords where you need to use your thumb. One of these was the D chord, which he showed me as 200232 - before, I'd only known it as xx0232. Another thing he showed me was how to make barre chords more easily - by using my thumb to fret the bottom two strings for an A-shaped barre and the bottom string for an E-shaped barre. If I'm playing a 12-bar blues around the 5th fret, I'll start with full barres - but if I'm playing open chords and wish to switch to a barre, I'll probably use my thumb - I find it quicker, and with the added bonus (for me, I don't know about anyone else?) that it automatically seems to put my other fingers in somewhere approximating the correct places.

I do have large hands - maybe this wouldn't work for someone with small hands, but for me it's always worked fine - and it's good to have both options.

I'd say put your thumb where it's most comfortable for you - with time, and practise, you'll come to think of it as a natural 5th fretting finger instead of just something to hold your guitar with.



Vic

A thumb over is the name for that. People need to be aware that it can damage muscles in the thumb over a long period of time. It happened to Kirk.

[GuitarCanuck]

Thanks for the responses everyone. It seems that what is comfortable is fine as long as you fret the chords correctly. My thumb does move about depending on the chord and does go low when I am trying barre chords (just a beginner so I am still trying to nail these, but getting better all the time). I did notice a lot of famous guitarists gripping the guitar with the thumb like mine, I just wanted to be sure I wasn't going down the wrong path when I am at a stage that I could (with some effort) correct any bad habits.

[Chris C]

Hi again,

I just wanted to be sure I wasn't going down the wrong path when I am at a stage that I could (with some effort) correct any bad habits.

I'd say that's a good way to look at it. I still try and remain willing to change - if and when I can see the logic behind it. But generally I'll see it as adding another option rather than making a complete change. So I do try and master a few of the classical techniques. It's never going to be my main focus, but it never hurts to stay open minded and add a few extra tools to your kit.

If you'd like to see some pretty extreme use of the thumb, check out Richie Havens' website. He open tunes and then uses his thumb to fret across the whole neck

Richie Shows you How

Scroll down his page to see some photos that show his method.

Do we have any classsical specialists here who could tell us more about which elements of the techniques are 'essential' and which might be called B.S.S.S. (my term meaning 'Because Segovia Said So'... )

Cheers,

Chris

[carol m]

I have found that the circumference of the neck makes all the difference to thumb position. I learned on a nylon classical with my thumb mostly in the middle of the back of the neck but got tendonitis of thumb and fingers that stopped me playing for 3 whole years because I over-practiced on a piece with almost constant and long-held barre chords and didn't stop until I couldn't play any more. I don't think the thumb position was in any way the cause of that.

Now I'm starting to play again on a steel string acoustic and find that it's very awkward to use the thumb position that I'm used to because the circumference of the neck is much smaller. Not the fret board width which is only slightly smaller but the whole circumference. The classical is 14cm around, and the acoustic is just under 11cm. This means that the chunkier neck of the classical was still supported to some extent by the rest of my hand while the thumb was around the back, but if I try that on the steel string there's a huge space between the palm of my left hand/fingers and the neck and I need more strength and have less control than I did on the classical with my thumb in the middle of the back.

When I first started to play again, and using the steel string, I used to tie a wad of padding onto the palm of my left hand to try to fill this space and take the strain off my thumb and fingers. Now I just rest the neck in the web of the thumb and palm and move it however it is comfortable, but I feel that I don't have the same stretch, strength or control that I used to with the classical thumb position on the thicker classical guitar.

[Mike8307]

Your going to find... as everyone else has said, that the thumb moves. The thumb in the middle and lower horizontal of the back of the neck is the classical style. But you'll find little string bending being done with the thumb in that position, and you will find chords and musical passages that require (for ease of play) that the thumb be over the neck.

Treat the thumb position like the strike zone in baseball or a highway speed limit. There's the rule as it is written in the book and then there's real life application.

Michael

[carol m]

Just thinking about the hand mechaics involved, if you have the thumb around the back you are using a pincer-type action with all the force from the fingers being countered by the thumb counter-force alone. But if you have the neck more in your palm, you are bracing against the palm, and the thumb does nearly nothing requiring force because you are using a more of a fist-type grip.

[Chris C]

Originally Posted by carol m

I have found that the circumference of the neck makes all the difference to thumb position. I learned on a nylon classical with my thumb mostly in the middle of the back of the neck

Very interesting info Carol.

I'd not thought about the neck issues like that before. But like you, I did my early learning on a nylon string classical guitar. So just out of interest I dusted it off after reading your post and tried it out again.

The first thing I did was to sit in the 'classical position' with the raised foot, guitar at a fairly upright angle, etc. When I had a bit of a play - somewhat to my surprise - my left hand seemed to almost automatically go into a version of the 'classical position' too!

As you say, it seemed to feel more 'right' on that neck, also for playing a different style of music. But another issue that it raised was that the whole posture I was using was different, and it seemed in a way to be part of a whole package to do it that way. For a start the guitar seemed to be balanced and braced in a more stable way and so the contribution that the thumb was making to keeping it located and steady was different.

I wonder if Fretsource could shine any more light on this for us? He seems to be a full bottle on most things related to the science of guitar, and I have an idea that he might be a bit into the classical side of things. Many sites now acknowledge that there is a 'rock position' and a 'classical position', but it would be interesting to know more of the details behind it all.

Cheers,

Chris