[lason]

Hi, I'm new to the forum and planning on getting Plane Talk. I was wondering if I order on Monday if it would arrive in St. Louis by Christmas?

[Clancy]

It would be very unlikely lason. Monday for you is Tuesday for us, that leaves only 4 days for it to arrive. We've had some fast shipping times (especially around Christmas) but I doubt it would arrive that quickly I'm sorry to say.

Clancy

[lason]

Thanks for the quick reply, Clancy. Ever since I started reading about Plane Talk, I've been very anxious to get it. I guess I'll just have to wait it out, then. Thanks again.

[BobGamacho]

As an FYI: I ordered mine on a Sunday and received it in the mail the following Monday. But, this was not the week of X-mas, so you need to figure probably 2 extra days mailing time at this time of year.

I'm in Monterey, CA USA if that helps.

As another FYI, it took me about a week to get through the book at about 20 minutes per night. I was about 1/2 way through the DVD when I got interrupted and had to stop the video, then the X-mas season hit as well as the cold weather, and my time has been sucked up into family stuff at the moment. Since I'm done with everything except the Monday festivities, I will go back to the DVD after about a 2 week hiatus this weekend.

Rob

[lason]

I put my order in on monday. With any luck it'll come today so I can spend my 3 day weekend enjoying it but if not, I'll just have to wait it out. Rob, do you find it to be the great thing I'm hoping it is? Have you noticed much improvement?

[BobGamacho]

Note: Before replying to Lason's post, I want to say that I'm not affiliated with this webstie nor any products here. And, I will say both good and bad things about an issue when asked a question like Lason's. With that said:

Short Answer: No, not yet. But, the reason for that is not necessarily the fault of the teaching aids. I've had 2 really busy weeks and haven't had the time to sit down and ingest any/everything yet. Now that some of busy-ness is gone, I'm able to go back to my guitar.

Long Answer: No, but kind of. I didn't seem to have very many "Ah-ha!" moments while reading the book (which I read somewhere is what should be done before watching the DVD, meaning reading it prior to watching the video). It was more learning the definitions and parameters of the book so that I would understand the rest of the book.

As examples, and without giving away the content of the book, I had to spend extra time learning the difinitions of each note in a scale by the numbers, meaning I, II, III, IV, etc. Since I hadn't thought of a scale as being individual notes, it took me a good day to drum these into my head and what they meant.

This leads into something that I wasn't prepared for (mainly because I never taught myself how scales work) was how a scale works, meaning the intervals between the notes on a scale. There is a section in the beginning of the book that is to be memorized (the intervals between the notes on a scale), and to me, they are easy on paper but I'm having a hard time relating them to the fretboard. But, this is something I have to learn, and this is kind of key to the rest of the book. Since I don't know the intervals between the notes by heart, I'm spending a lot of time on this right now because the rest of the book and DVD are based upon me knowing how to find the intervals once some base notes are established. Once I get this down, I think the rest of the book will fall into place.

A few other notes at this point for me (and that others might like to know):

1) The comic book-style format really does work. But, even though it's in a comic strip format, don't expect to whiz through this. There's a lot of stuff to ingest in a relatively small amount of writing (compared to a book with no pictures/drawing), so it doesn't go as quickly as antcipated.

2) Kirk's book and DVD (from the 1/2 of it that I've seen so far) are very sound and pragmatic. But, don't expect to learn this sytem in a few days. For me, this appears to be something I am going to budget about 3 months for with putting in a few hours a day/week/month until I get to where I don't need the study aids and can start practicing on my own. I consider this an investment of my time, and now that I see how it's written, I initially underestimated the amount of effort I will need to devote to this. This amount of time will be shorter for people who have more knowledge of how scales work and have had more fretboard time.

3) After getting through the first few pages (20 or so), I felt drained and had to take a break. The first group of pages set up the terms and definitions that are used througout the book. Without any formal music training other than high school band many years ago, I had to start memorizing a bunch of things, thus the reason it took me tso long to get through the "introduction". Once past that part, it took me a few more days to get through the rest of the book as it was slow going for me.

4) When I finally made it through the written portion, I had only one prominant feeling: "How the $^%& does this apply to the fretboard?" By the end, I understood the definitions and the reasoning behind how scales work and the patterns, but I finished not knowing how to apply that to the actual piece of wood I call my guitar. The DVD and sliderule clear this up, and I realize now that I should have had the sliderule in front of me when reading through the book after the first day or two.

5) My next step is to finish the DVD then start back through the book again. My main weakness is not knowing the patterns on the freatboard as they relate to the major, minor, etc scales, and until I drill this into my head, I'm kind of stuck with learnign anything else. This is a very slow process for me, but the diligence will pay off (I hope).

Sorry about being so lengthy, but this is the kind of review I would have like to have read prior to me getting the set. I would have devoted the week of shipping time to start memorizing the scale patterns so that I wasn't behind the power curve when I received the envelope.

If you have other questions, feel free to ask, but unless I hear from Kirk to the opposite, I won't give out any of the details of the book. I don't consider what I wrote here as giving anything away, and if I did, please let me know so that I will avoid that kind of verbage in the future.

Rob

[lason]

I appreciate your honest review, Bob. Sounds like I'm gonna have to put some work into it also as I don't really know too much about scales. Just the thought of learing how to finally be able to navigate the fretboard has me very excited and I think any time and effort I put into it will be well worth it.

[Cliff]

Don't under estimate the power of the private forum either. I didn't know anything about scales or improvising before I got the book and it really opened up a new world for me. I think you'll be very happy.

[lason]

Thanks, Cliff. I'm sure I'll be happy with it also. The mail came today and alas, no Plane Talk. The waiting is killing me!

[Cliff]

Have you asked for your pass into the private forum yet? I know that people recommend reading the book first; in fact its almost a must before you might understand what people are talking about on there, but patience was never one of my virtues. At least if you get all set now with the forum, after you get the book and want to ask a question you won't have to wait.

[Kirk Lorange]

Hi, Rob. I just OKed your PlaneTalkers' Forum account so you can ask away in there. It sounds to me like you have a few questions ...

Just a word of warning to potential buyers ... PlaneTalk is not for beginners. The lesson it teaches is certainly worthwhile learning early on, but you may not have anything to apply it to for a while. It was designed for those who have a lot of playing under their strap already and are now looking up the neck wondering how to make sense of that no-man's-land so that they can use it ... also for those wondering how to improvise freely, all over the neck, without worrying about scales as such, and being able to do that over any type of music, any chord progression. If you're not at that stage yet, you may indeed wonder 'what's this all about?? how can I use this information?'

The other thing I should stress, I guess, is that playing guitar, at any level, is a very tricky occupation; to get to the stage where you can hear music in your head and then play it instantly on the guitar, anywhere on the fretboard, on purpose, deliberately, is a lifelong learning process. There are no 'play like a professional in 60 days' methods out there, and I make sure I never imply that PT is such a method. All it does is describe a mindset and provide a very simple map to help adopt that mindset ... it takes just as much practice as any other teaching method. I do believe though, that to put your time into this way of thinking will get you to that point of being to play on your fretboard what you hear in your head MUCH quicker than trying to make sense of all the scales/modes that seem to be the mainstay of guitar teaching. Those elements are more the raw ingredients of music, and you should know them well, but the PT mindset lets music itself do most of the work ...

Rob, I'm not sure what level you've reached in your playing, but from your post it sounds like maybe you've taken on the PlaneTalk lesson a little early, and if that's the case, we'll all be very happy over at the PT forum to fill you in on what you may be missing out. I can tell you for sure, though, that it will take a few readings of the book and a few viewings of the DVD for the full lesson to even begin to sink in.

Later that evening: Rob, I just listened to your two Christmas songs ... very well done. You're obviously well down the track with your playing ... read PT and watch the DVD a few more times ... the PT penny will drop soon enough.

[lason]

Thanks for the reply, Kirk. I've been playing for 14 years now so I'd say I'm a little bit past the beginner stage. It seems like Plane Talk is just what I need to advance my playing to where I want it to be. Now if the mail will just hurry up and get it to me!

[allthumbs]

Originally Posted by lason

Thanks for the reply, Kirk. I've been playing for 14 years now so I'd say I'm a little bit past the beginner stage. It seems like Plane Talk is just what I need to advance my playing to where I want it to be. Now if the mail will just hurry up and get it to me!

With that much playing under your belt, you'll just soak it up. See you over there.