[krissovo]

HI All

I need a few pieces of advice reguarding PA systems and things, I have a few questions in connecting a guitar to a PA system.

1. How would you mic up a small amp to a PA system? Is it place a mic in front of the amp in question or is there a art to placement of a mic?

2. Can I plug a Boss pedal staright into the PA and play through that?

3. Can I plug the headphone output of my small amp to a PA? Its a Roland cube 30 or the VOX 30

4. Of the above what is the best method?

5. What output PA would I need to fill a moderatly large room that would hold about 250 people? I am looking at a 600W to 1000W system and also any recomendations for a suitable Make/Model (not massively expencive)

[wjp01908]

Hi Krissovo

Good news on the band front!

1. Stick a mic on a stand in front of the amp and run to the PA. Basically experiment to find the best sound - this will vary according to mic and amp. Put the amp up on something and tilt it so you can hear yourself play over everybody else unless the sound picked up by the mic is coming back to you on a monitor.

2. Probably, but you will have to have a monitor in this case as all the sound will be going to the PA

3. Ditto on the headphone output - the amp will be silent and you`ll need a monitor - has either amp got a "line out" - this will feed the PA without silencing the amp.

4. Try it out - either amp "may" be loud enough to be heard without a mic if the whole setup is fairly quiet. Failing that, 1 would be best. Or get a Cube 60 - they`re loud enough!

5. Go for the most power you can get within your budget rather than loads of bells and whistles.(while sticking with a reputable make!) You can always turn it down, but things can start to sound bad quite quickly if the PA is struggling. Might be worth hiring initially to get a feel for what you need.

HTH

Will
Will

[Matty22]

1. How would you mic up a small amp to a PA system? Is it place a mic in front of the amp in question or is there a art to placement of a mic?
Sit it on a stand, as for the exact placement, ive always used trial and error

2. Can I plug a Boss pedal staright into the PA and play through that?
*Generally yes, but ive had some probs with some inhouse setups people have had
3. Can I plug the headphone output of my small amp to a PA? Its a Roland cube 30 or the VOX 30
*Same again, shouldnt be a drama
4. Of the above what is the best method?
I tend to figure wires plugged in is going to be more reliable (not likely to trip over mic stand or something stupid, and also less likely to pick up noise etc
5. What output PA would I need to fill a moderatly large room that would hold about 250 people? I am looking at a 600W to 1000W system and also any recomendations for a suitable Make/Model (not massively expencive) There is no replacement for displacement. Its always better to have heaps of headroom, and not have to work the gear as hard. When we have DJ'd undersage discos, we use Twin 18" Subs and 4 15" mid/tops all up its about 4500watts, but we're not using it all, and that competes with 3-400 screaming 14 year olds without a worry.

* It would pay to run though a DI (Direct Input) to be on the safe side, and also running a balanced signal over the longest distance, will reduce noise. rather than running an unbalanced instrument lead...

When i "jam" with my mates at the local scout hall, we all run our amps, for guitars, not through the PA, we only use the PA for vocals, or backing tracks kinda things. and for watching dvd's with the projector

[WernHalen]

Originally Posted by krissovo

I am looking at a 600W to 1000W system and also any recomendations for a suitable Make/Model (not massively expencive)

I would say go for the most expensive piece of equipment you can afford... Depending on whether you intend making money from this you might want to go a bit cheaper.

By the sound of it I would say you have a fair bit to learn about mixing and sound so get a simple easy to use desk. (Mackie, Yamaha, Studio Master etc. (Behringer if you really want to go cheap)) If you learn quick and you have a tech (digital background) geta Yamaha 01V96 mixer, it is relatively cheap and it prevents you buying a lot of outboard effect, like compressors, gates, eq's, FX units etc. This makes this unit easy to transport and light weight, yamaha was the first company to go into digital mixing head on and the technology is great. It has its draw backs of course. On a analog desk if a single channel goes you can still get along till you can get it fixed, on a digital desk you probably wont be able to continue... (it is a yamaha of course so I would not expect it to have any problems though.) The fact that the yamaha has compressors and gates installed on the desk itself makes the setup and sound from the band just so much better, especially with rock and loud bands. If the desk is setup properly you dont have to change the settings ever again, you just recall the settings for your band and the desk is ready. A simple 10 second operation. Analog desks requires the sound man to write everything down and set everything by hand... It can be pain staking trust me i've been there... And I've done it without compressors...

For amplifiers I would suggest Crown... At the sizes that you are talking about the price between a good amp and a great amp is not that much different. When you get your amps make sure they are compatable with the speakers... THe max output must be greater on the amp than what the speaker can handle... I.e a speaker cna handle 350 Watt peak power (not RMS) then you need a 400 Watt amp at least. You'll have extra head room which is great. Without it, if the amp clips you could lose your speakers... A clipping amp does real damage to speakers.

If you intend getting good amps and you dont want to spend too much time on setup and eq problems get yourself a DBX speaker processor. It can fix most eq feedback and room accoustic problems. It is not necessary, but it is really worth every penny, spend some time on getting to know what it can do of course... (you can get this later when you have your system going ofcourse...)

For speakers I would suggest nothing less than JBL. They make the most speakers in the world, so they sure as hell need to know what they are doing... Their starter speakers are not that expensive compared to the competitors, but the quality and weight is a big plus point.

Get a set of tops witha set of bass bins. if you are trying to get bass out of your tops you are eating away at valuable head room. Dont worry about cross overs or anything like that if you have the DBX it handles the cross over functions very well.


Anything less than that I would suggest you go for Behringer... THey are probably the loswest price for what you are getting, but beware you get what you pay for.

I am an avid fan of Behringer when people want to do home recordings and that , but when you want to perform infront of 250 people you need to have the best you can afford.

Everything boils down to budget...

[krissovo]

Thanks lads

I played around with mic placing and pedals to PA etc and I think I have found a workable solution using my VOX amp and the headphone output. Ok its not the best so as a comparison I "borrowed" a Marshall half stack that really blew me away. Its almost forgiving with your playing with the volume cranked so for our office party gig I think I will hire the amp for the evening.

For the PA I am off for the day tomorrow to Dublin and a couple of us will be testing different PA's for 4 or 5 hours, could be fun in a sound proof room. The Yamaha's do look very interesting along with the JBL speakers......The best thing is that it is not my money, the Company Sports and Social fund will pay for a complete PA system for us and the budget is quite generous

[coldethyl]

Originally Posted by krissovo

For the PA I am off for the day tomorrow to Dublin and a couple of us will be testing different PA's for 4 or 5 hours, could be fun in a sound proof room. The Yamaha's do look very interesting along with the JBL speakers......The best thing is that it is not my money, the Company Sports and Social fund will pay for a complete PA system for us and the budget is quite generous

Sounds like you're going to have a great time!

[Matty22]

The yammie's nice gear. ill back it, pricey, but worth every penny.....

We're running JBLs for one set of mids. with RCF cones in custom boxes for the subs..... Both of which have great clarity for the money... Id put them both against the high priced equivelants...

[Tekker]

Originally Posted by krissovo

4. Of the above what is the best method?

Miking the amp is definitely the way to go! Direct out of amps sounds terrible in comparison to miking the speaker, especially if you've got a good amp. You loose a lot of amplifier goodness by going out of the direct out or the headphone out.

For mic placement a good starting point is to point it so that it's not point directly at the center of the cone but more towards the outer part of the cone. About midway between the center of the cone and far the outer edge of the cone.... The direct center is really bright and harsh and as you move the mic outward it'll become smoother/darker.

What kind of mics do you have?

-tkr

[Matty22]

Originally Posted by Tekker

About midway between the center of the cone and far the outer edge of the cone.... The direct center is really bright and harsh and as you move the mic outward it'll become smoother/darker.
-tkr

How would that apply to a quad box? or dual cab or something similar

[krissovo]

Originally Posted by Tekker

What kind of mics do you have?

-tkr

At the moment we have sure 58's

[Tekker]

Originally Posted by Matty22

How would that apply to a quad box? or dual cab or something similar

You can pick any one of the speaker cones and put the mic on it. They should all sound approximately the same.

Originally Posted by krissovo

At the moment we have sure 58's

That's good! The 57's/58's are great for live guitar amp miking.

-tkr