[ozboomer]

Well, I guess I'm in the wrong game, trying to learn guitar so that I can play in a live situation... or at least, that's what it feels like sometimes..

For whatever reason, I've never been one for going to live events, concerts, pub shows, etc... and with the 'ramping-up' of my interest in guitar again in the last couple of years, I thought I'd have a go at a couple of performance things, just to listen to some live music..

What a joke.

I've probably only been to a dozen things so far but there's probably only 1 or 2 of them that I found 'enjoyable'. The main problem seems to be that everyone is DEAF.

Any time I went to one of these things, whether it was a performance in a pub, in a coffee shop, at a party, or even just to go for a jam at a mate's place, everyone seems to have to have the volume on 1000.

When I went to one coffee shop thing, with just a fellow, his guitar, some backing tracks and another fellow on keyboards, it was good. They were sort-of half-outside, so the volume needed to be up a bit so they could be heard... but I was sitting maybe 3 metres from their amps and there was no problem.

...but every other thing was so dashed loud! I actually took a sound meter with me a couple of times and what with crazy drummers and loud everything, the meter was reading up around 100 dB a lot of the time. Ok, I understand that you have to have a certain level of loudness when people are about, as they suck up the volume... but what I've heard is crazy.

Granted, I'm a bit sensitive to loud noises... but a performance that runs at that intensity has GOT to be bad for your hearing... and yet this sort of thing seems "normal".

So, I'll stick to my playing/listening for recording and playback, I think... and won't bother with the "live venues"... at least, on a regular basis. I'm just glad I have some pro ear protectors to take along with me when I 'must' go to these things...

I'd be interested to learn if anyone has similar experiences... or if I've just struck performances where (nearlly) all the sound people have absolutely no clue... or whether the entire population of live music-goers is destined to a future of tinnitus and/deafness...

[SlickCat]

Some bands play way too loud!
Its bad when you go to see a band and the volume is so loud that if you yell into the persons ear next to you to say something they cant even hear you .
I have been in some clubs that were so loud it actually hurt to be up front by the band.

[SlickCat]

So, I'll stick to my playing/listening for recording and playback, I think... and won't bother with the "live venues"... at least, on a regular basis. I'm just glad I have some pro ear protectors to take along with me when I 'must' go to these things...

Whats makes it even worse is a lot of band members wear ear plugs. So they think the volume is fine..

[Nutty]

I agree 100%. We went out for dinner one evening and the band was setting up. I was trying to talk to my husband across the table who was maybe 2 1/2 feet away and we couldn't hear each other. So, out came the cell phones and we text messaged each other. That's prettty sad. We are in our mid 40's so we not that old yet (I hope).

The thing was that the band was pretty good, but you couldn't enjoy because of the volume. At least we couldn't.

Nutty

[JessThrasher]

I don't really find any band too loud. I think its all part of the show. No offence to anyone, but I even have a shirt that says "If it's too loud, you're too old"

I've been a long time sufferer of migrane headaches but usually after concerts the headaches I get aren't migranes, so as soon as I go to sleeep and wake up the next morning, they're gone.

[Birddog]

I agree , I think some bands go with the thought- if you can't play well, play loud. I'm sure it has a lot to do with the acoustics of the venue , but it also has a lot to do with the bands sound mixer .If you notice the bar bands that start out rather mid volume then must figure as people come in and drink they get deafness with each glass of beer and by the nights end , you can't hear yourself think. I've heard outdoor bands that sounded very good ,others sounded like they needed to turn up the volume a bit (and take more lessons)Big difference between a live play situation and a studio .

[JessThrasher]

Originally Posted by ozboomer

So, I'll stick to my playing/listening for recording and playback, I think... and won't bother with the "live venues"... at least, on a regular basis. I'm just glad I have some pro ear protectors to take along with me when I 'must' go to these things...

What makes it even harder for me is I can't properly use ear protectors. I've got a piece of steel through my tragus. It's lived there for abit. Incase you're wonering what the tragus is, it's that small piece outside the hearing hole. Thats why when I listen to my MP3 players, I only can use one side.

I guess I can never be a professional musician without the worry of hearing loss. And I've been a long time sufferer of noise and fatigue induced migranes...

[Andy S]

Undortunately, that is true in too many cases. Last eyar I got the chance to go and see a band with a friend in it. The volume off stage was too loud, so the monitors were cranked up, which made the FOH sound muddy, so the venue sound operator (they didn't use their own system, but used the club system and sound guy) cranked it up thinking it would make things better.

Sadly, when he excitedly asked me how they sounded, thinking they were really "On" that night, I had to tell him how bad it was out front.


BUT!!!!! For those of you that fear hearing losses at a concert, this might give you some hope

I just read a neat article on FOH magazine. (for those unfamiliar with sound systems and audio, that's Front of House) They interviewed the lead sound men for a tour featuring Boston and Styx. Boston, at one time, had a reputation for being one of the louder bands on tour.

Seems Mr. Tom Sholtz, the leader and founder of the band, is realizing his ears are getting more sensitive to loud noises.So he uses in ear monitoring while playing. Also, the FOH engineer said they never go over 100dB. Usually averaging around 90-95 dB. And, for the last 7-8 years the FOH engineer is the guy that did the studio mixing. So, he still has his hearing from NOT working years on the road at High Volumes.

90-100 dB is still loud to some folks. But, compared to a lot of concerts and club bands, it is very low. Depending on what songs and who is running sound at our church, our Saturday evening and Sunday morning services average anywhere from 90-100dB with an occassional peak of 102dB.

And for anyone that says extremely high volumes DOESN'T bother them or affect them....... it may not "bother" you now, but it will definitely have an adverse affect on your hearing as you get up there in years. Once it's gone, it does NOT come back.

[JessThrasher]

There's not much I can do... Might as well, if you can't beat em...JOIN EM!

[Stratrat]

Originally Posted by Andy S

...And for anyone that says extremely high volumes DOESN'T bother them or affect them....... it may not "bother" you now, but it will definitely have an adverse affect on your hearing as you get up there in years. Once it's gone, it does NOT come back.

+1000. It may feel all cool and "rock n roll" now, but it's no fun when you hit your 30's or 40's and are hearing cicadas trilling in your ears 24/7. As Andy said, once it's gone, you'll never get it back. Tinnitus and hearing loss are forever....take it from those who have been there/done that.

More and more bands are going to IEM's, and more and more venues are imposing decibel level restrictions (especially small venues such as bars/clubs that have to contend with neighbors). I remember Krissovo posting a while back about a gig he did for a Christmas party last year - the room had SPL monitors, and a light started flashing once you hit a certain level. If you kept hitting it, the limiter would kill power to the band's equipment!

Regarding Tom Scholz and Boston - I saw them last year at one of our local casinos (which has an excellent indoor concert venue), and their FOH volume was very reasonable....but they still rocked and sounded very good. I like being able to enjoy a concert without my ears ringing for two days afterward!

[starsailor]

+1 to all the above comments, a lot does depend on the acoustics in the venue too, how the sound carries, the sound in a pub will be completely different to a church hall etc. and also on who the sound guy is if it's unbalanced the stage turns into a warzone with the vocalist competing against the instruments sometimes it's the drums that take over and kill everything else, my mate plays in a band but he seems to have got the right balance everything comes out clear but he sets the whole thing up himself it must be harder if you have to work with a P.A. provided by the venue.
On the subject of deafness, I spent most of the 70's and 80'S going to see heavy metal bands like Rush, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath etc. and standing right at the front by the speakers, my ears used to ring for ages after a gig, now I'm a lot older and pretty deaf to be honest, I still get ringing in my ears and have to jack the volume up to hear anything but to be honest I don't regret it as I had a great time and I can't turn back the clock, having impaired hearing isn't all bad if the Wife has a go at me I just pretend I didn't hear what she said always drives her nuts but she can't be bothered to repeat what she said, it is worth looking after your hearing though all you have to do is keep away from the speakers, I was way too close

[Andy S]

Originally Posted by Stratrat

Regarding Tom Scholz and Boston - I saw them last year at one of our local casinos (which has an excellent indoor concert venue), and their FOH volume was very reasonable....but they still rocked and sounded very good. I like being able to enjoy a concert without my ears ringing for two days afterward!

From what I got out of that article, part of the reason it sounds so good is the engineer that did the recordings is also the FOH man now. He doesn't like it loud and knows how to get good sounds at lower volumes. Which is what I try to get any new volunteer at our church to do. Listen closely to the recording of the songs we do, then when the musicians play that song, try as close as you can to match it. Add to that, that we are pushing real hard for all the musicians to go direct and use IEMs. We're getting there.

As for going out and listening to bands and concerts that are loud, you can get some ear plugs that effectively cut down the volume but allow most of the frequencies to pass through. The promo materials say ALL of them, but when I tried them, there was just a little bit of very high end loss. But they were still effective and I think they could be good for real loud shows.

[JessThrasher]

THe last thing I wanna do is go deaf. BUt I see so many concerts a year and I love it. Including the 8 hour long blues and roots festival you won't believe how badly my head was killing me after that. I couldn't really hear properly. I tried to take breaks inbetween each band (they do have breaks), but it doesn't seem to help.

[thodwris]

In my personal opinion bands that play too loud aren't playing music!!Nowadays I have noticed that many bands play on purpose loud.What do I see in this?They are really trying to cover mistakes in their playing.Anyone can get an electric,put the drive and distorsion to the maximum,play over and over some barre chords and say that has a band.I don' think that music is what it used to be mainly because every song has to follow certain lines,has to be commercial.That's why there are old songs that we never get bord of them(all time classics)and new songs that when we hear them for a number of times we no longer like them...Someone can easily find some arguements and say that I am wrong,but in the bottom line,in my opinion music is supposed to bring stability and harmony to our lives and not anarchy,chaos and health problems.Going deaf is something someone lucky would get from listening to very loud music.It can actually lead to slow death!There is a disease(I don't know how it is called in English)where the whole body get's stiff slowly and the outcome is tragic.It is all related to the nervous system that gets affected...
In order to release the tension a bit I must say this.I have heard that Manowar,gets on purpose loud speakers and sets them to the ground because it attracts the female fans !It is said that the vibrations from the ground get to their body and ... you know the rest ...
All the best,
Theo

[starsailor]

Originally Posted by thodwris

Going deaf is something someone lucky would get from listening to very loud music.It can actually lead to slow death!There is a disease(I don't know how it is called in English)where the whole body get's stiff slowly and the outcome is tragic.It is all related to the nervous system that gets affected...
Theo

Kind of got me worried now Theo, that sounds like getting old to me