[Doug]

I received a great book for Christmas - "This is Your Brain on Music" by Danial Levitin. He's a scientist studying the workings of the brain and especially how the brain assimilates and experiences music. Before becoming a scientist he was a session musician, sound engineer and recording producer working with the likes of Stevie Wonder and Blue Oyster Cult. He is an excellent writer and uses examples of popular songs often to help explain his points.

There is a chapter in the book called What Makes a Musician. Here is an excerpt...

"In several studies, the very best conservatory students were found to have practised the most, sometimes twice as much as those who weren't judged as good.
In another study, students were secretly divided into groups based on teachers' evaluation of their ability, or the perception of talent. Several years later, the students who achieved the highest performance ratings were those who had practised the most irrespective of which "talent" group they had been assigned to previously. This suggests that practise is the cause of achievement, not merely correlated with it. ...
"The emerging picture from such studies is that ten thousand hours of practise is required to achieve the level of mastery associated with being a world class expert - at anything. In study after study, of composers, basketball players, fiction writers, ice skaters, concert pianists, chess players, master criminals, and what have you, this number comes up time and again. Ten thousand hours is equivalent to roughly three hours a day, or twenty hours a week, of practise over ten years. ... No one has yet found a case in which true world class expertise was achieved in less time."

That's a lot of practise. I guess you just have to remain patient and enjoy the journey...

[Andy S]

OK, Ok, so let me see if I got this......three hours a day, or twenty hours a week, of practice over ten years. ... 10,400 hours! Hmmm..

Right now , I'm trying to learn Standard notation. Ok, more like to get better at it. I currently practice for 15-20 minute intervals for about 1 hour total time (this allows me to do other husband/fatherly duties during the time at home), perhaps 1 to 1.5 hours total time, 3 to 4 days a week. Ok so that's what? 3-5 hours a week? multiply that by ?.........carry the 2...!?!?

I think that means I'd have to go for closer to 38 years to reach that mark!!!! Yeh! Baby!! I'm well on my way!! That would put me at around 96 yrs old when I get to be an expert!!! WOO HOO!!!

[Doug]

not just an expert - a world-class expert. You reach the competant level way before that

[jimmyzowens]

lmao to much info brain exploding lol. to tech for me just enjoy and play for me 5 seconds or two hours , good or bad it dont matter

[6string]

very interesting

[starsailor]

Hi Doug interesting article, had a big discussion about the brain on a thread about playing left handed a few weeks ago, just a question, was this a study of young people or across the age range, just wondered if age was a factor in the equation.
Most answers to how do I improve conclude that practice is the only way and this research supports that, it is good to see that with a bit of dedication the majority of people can be competent guitarists in a relatively short time.

[carol m]

I hate to give a reality check here, but if I have understood it right, this only shows that the most successful people practiced that much, but surely there is no reason why you couldn't practice for ten thousand hours (or twenty thousand hours) and still not be that good? I'm hoping you will show me that I am wrong.

Please note that I am not saying that you don't need to practice a lot to be good, and as a consequence, the more you practice, the better you will be. That is still true.

[starsailor]

Fair point by Carol, it would be interesting to do some research on self-taught guitarists covering the whole age range it would give a good overview of what can be achieved by the person in the street who has to cope with the restrictions imposed on them by daily life be they financial or personal and also show if age has any affect on the process of learning guitar. Just a thought.

[knight46]

I suppose that if you were bad and practiced for 10,000 hours that would make you a world class bad player

[si16]

I posted a link to an article that drew the same conclusions in this thread. I guess there's no substitute for practice.

[6string]

Originally Posted by carol m

I hate to give a reality check here, but if I have understood it right, this only shows that the most successful people practiced that much, but surely there is no reason why you couldn't practice for ten thousand hours (or twenty thousand hours) and still not be that good? I'm hoping you will show me that I am wrong.

Please note that I am not saying that you don't need to practice a lot to be good, and as a consequence, the more you practice, the better you will be. That is still true.

You have just quashed my hope of being able to someday sing

[Doug]

Yes, I'm sure there are all kinds of ways to interpret the studies, but I think what was meant was that the students who practised the most were the best musicians. Now, the ones who found practising easy probably were the ones who practised the most. But who knows? Maybe there are world class experts who were just hard working diligent persevering ordinary people.

The other thing not mentioned was the difficulty of the practising that was done and the effect that had on the progress.

[6string]

Even people with natural talent have to develope it = practice

[carol m]

Thats right, the more you practice, the better you get, and without practice no-one is ever good. We all must practice as much as we can if we want to improve. Luckily, I for one enjoy practicing, and anyway when is playing not 'practice'?

[cshude]

I would argue that you have two factors involved in achieving mastery: quality and quantity. You have to have both and they are directly related to each other. If you put very little effort into practicing (not simply playing), it will take much longer to achieve mastery than if you practice with effort. I make the distinction between practice and playing because I look at practicing as work-focused, and playing as fun-focused. Can you make improvements through simply playing- absolutely. I simpy make the statement that you would make much greater strides in a much shorter period of time using a structured, focused practice regimen than by simply playing.

As an example, in order to learn a complicated song, what do you typically do? For me, personally, I'll try the first time to play the first section of the song as well as I can by sight-reading. Then I get to work on each phrase, even breaking it down into individual measures, or even notes. As I perfect each of the smaller steps, I'll rapidly improve on the overall song.

So, 10,000 hours? Sounds pretty reasonable to me, although it is still not a guarantee of world-class status. There is still the magic ingredient of talent- very evident in the world of music. With 10.000 hours of practice, you would be awesome, but would you be one of the best in the world? Who knows.... I would settle for being awesome, myself.......