8 replies to this topic

[bigdog3332]

How do you know what the relative major/minor chord is? How can you add this to your guitar playing? Is it most useful for playing different scales in a solo or used for chord changes? I'm kind of confused on the whole topic.

[Kirk Lorange]

The relative minor of a major key is the vi chord. So in C, it's Am. CDEFGA ... 123456. Minor keys are not quite as straight forward as that, but if you're in the key of Am, C will the relative major, although you rarely hear the term.

The term comes from the fact that the C scale has the same notes as the Am scale, so the key of C is closely related to the key of Am since all the chords from each use the same notes.

It's more of a point of theory rather than something you can use in your playing, but obviously if you're soloing over a C you'll be using the same scale as if you were soling over a Am. Each will have it's own 'center' (C and A) but the scale notes are the same for both,

Does that help?

[bigdog3332]

Yes that helps thanks. If you were soloing in E, the relative minor would be Cm correct? So in terms of scales, you could solo over Cm/Emajor pentatonic? And just land on C or E root notes according to the chord changes?

If I am correct there, would this only be useful if both an E and Cm were in a progression together? If it is just a I, IV, V progression in E, would the relative minor of E be useful?

[Kirk Lorange]

C#m, bigdog ... not Cm.

I never think of scales when I'm soloing, so I'm not the best guy to ask about scales. I just work around the chord tones and fill in the blanks when needed. It's a much safer, easier and more melodic way to solo. When you say land on C(#) or E, you can actually land on any of the chord tones of those two chords and be right. So E-B-G# for E; C#-E-G# for C#m. You can see how they both share the E and G#.

You can always think 'relative chord' when soloing for a bit of variety in the sound of the lines that emerge. If you're playing over E and you think 'let me do some C#m lines', you will essentially be turning the overall sound of the E into E6, because of that C# note that will come into play. That may or may not be appropriate and the only way to tell is to try it. In the blues, the E will most probably be dominant, so E7 ... E7 with a 6 becomes E13 ... again, may or may not work. But, once you get good at switching around and trying things out, one quick pass will tell you if it's great or ordinary. These are things you need to experiment with. But that's a good one to start out on, the M-m relatives.

When you see common shapes, you should always cross reference the flavors ... for example:

XXX555 is either a Fmaj7 (with no root) or a Am (pure triad) or a D9 (just the b7-9-5) ... so those three chords have those same three notes in them. You can use that knowledge when soloing, in other words you can be playing over an actual Am chord and think Fmaj7 or D9 ... with care, of course. You can't think full scales, but if you're creating lines with fragments of chords -- 3 or 4 notes -- you can think of the other chords that have the same notes in them purely by looking at the shapes. It's interesting how you do start getting different sounding lines just by thinking the of the other chords. It's also a good way to map out the fretboard.

[Doug]

Hi Kirk,
A related question - when numbering a chord sequence as in iii vi ii V I, do musicians generally use the relative major key for the numbering if the song is in a minor key? For example, Autumn leaves in Em but when I try to map it out to see what is happening, I use numbering from G(major) - for example the A section would be, ii V I IV vii III vi.
Have you ever seen the chord numbering start with the one on the minor?
thanks
Doug

[tinsmith]

So the relative minor is 3 steps lower? The C Major Pent scale is EXACTLY the same as the A Minor Pent scale....yes/no?

[Kirk Lorange]

Doug, on 08 January 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

Hi Kirk,
A related question - when numbering a chord sequence as in iii vi ii V I, do musicians generally use the relative major key for the numbering if the song is in a minor key? For example, Autumn leaves in Em but when I try to map it out to see what is happening, I use numbering from G(major) - for example the A section would be, ii V I IV vii III vi.
Have you ever seen the chord numbering start with the one on the minor?
thanks
Doug

Good question, Doug ... I'm not sure. I can't recall ever being given a number chart for minor a key. I think that because there are many possibilities for minor keys (because there there are three minor scales) it would all get pretty messy and indecipherable ... for example, the I-IV-V chords in the case of minor can be key ii-iv-v, i-IV-v or i-iv-V so it gets tricky, doesn't it.

I'll look into it, see what I can find.

[scotty_b]

Hi Doug
I'll stick my neck out and say no. Whenever i have played off charts using the numbering system, everything has always been relative to the I. And I haven't played Autumn Leaves for a while so I can't remember if it changes key or not - I just remember it is a long sequence of ii-V-I movements - but I have never played a jazz gig where there are just numbers on the chart. Every jazz gig has had either a lead sheet or fully notated parts.
It has been mainly country gigs where the numbering system has been used on the charts, and most of the time there have been no surprising chord movements or weird and wonderful extensions or alterations in play at this gigs anyway.

[Doug]

Thanks, Kirk and Scotty.

Scotty, I think you are right - Autumn leaves using Gmajor numbering...
ii V I IV vii III vi - no discernible patterns
using Em numbering...
iv VII III VI ii V i
and there is the 3 6 2 5 1 (although in a minor key, the major/minor chords are bit wonky).

thanks again,
Doug