18 replies to this topic

[johnmay]

I haven't yet seen the guitar but from the description it seems as if it is broken where the head stock meets the neck.I am fairly certain that I can rig some clamps to do the job but am unsure what kind of glue to use .should wood screws be used and counter sunk ....epoxy ?the cosmetics I don't worry about but I want to get a sevicable guitar out of this if possible. thanks in advance for any help .oh I am in the hot muggy south if that makes a difference in glues .

[johnmay]

johnmay, on 13 August 2010 - 03:16 PM, said:

I haven't yet seen the guitar but from the description it seems as if it is broken where the head stock meets the neck.I am fairly certain that I can rig some clamps to do the job but am unsure what kind of glue to use .should wood screws be used and counter sunk ....epoxy ?the cosmetics I don't worry about but I want to get a sevicable guitar out of this if possible. thanks in advance for any help .oh I am in the hot muggy south if that makes a difference in glues .

ok this guitar is broken behind the nut .the head stock in an almost perfect 30 degree scarf joint. used an epoxy but the clamps would not hold I will clean it all off and start again. this time i will use dowel pins and gorilla glue .and get a better joint to clamp . hopefully it will take this time. this looks like it will make a good back up or knock around . hopefully this glue will hold.

[karcey]

I don't know anything about gorilla glue. My choice would've been a dedicated wood glue. Steel strings put an enormous pressure on the head. I saw an Epiphone fall on its face on the carpet just last week. Broke the head clean off.
Nylon guitars are far easier to fix.
I think the clamp is going to make or break this job. It's going to have to be tight enough to almost compress the wood.
That's my 20 cents worth (Used to be 2 cents but with inflation and all .....)
Let's know how you get on.

Edited by karcey, 21 August 2010 - 05:25 PM.

[johnmay]

karcey, on 21 August 2010 - 05:24 PM, said:

I don't know anything about gorilla glue. My choice would've been a dedicated wood glue. Steel strings put an enormous pressure on the head. I saw an Epiphone fall on its face on the carpet just last week. Broke the head clean off.
Nylon guitars are far easier to fix.
I think the clamp is going to make or break this job. It's going to have to be tight enough to almost compress the wood.
That's my 20 cents worth (Used to be 2 cents but with inflation and all .....)
Let's know how you get on.

thanks for the reply I do think you are right about the clamp but the problem was the that when I tried to tighten the clamp the pieces would push apart, thats why the dowels . if I can hold it in position with tape while drilling and fitting dowels then the dowels should keep it from pushing apart whem I apply pressure with the clamp .(at least thats my thinking) this is an Epiphone pr100, a good one for me to practice with .dedicated wood glue ??? I have not started yet on my second attempt at this ..any suggestions on glues .I have used a lot of different glues but for this amount of stress I'm not sure what to use

[pHGTRSpider]

Interesting project! Even using dowels, the sustain and sound of the guitar might be affected? I would consider turning the broken guitar into a clock and buying another guitar.

[karcey]

Can't recommend a brand of glue, but I've heard cabinetmakers boast that the glue they use is far stronger than the wood. I suppose it really depends on the penetration.
If the guitar is headed for the bin, then having a go with the dowels and clamp is a good call. A luthier would probably charge more than the guitar is worth anyway, so it's up to you to save it.
Good luck.

[johnmay]

well Spider I love a challenge we shall see tomorrow if it worked . if it holds I am thinking of replacing the veneer with a piece of brass. wonder what that will do for sustain .it will need something for cosmetic purposes . The man said." if you can fix it you can have it " who could refuse? ( plus I have one on layaway )

Karcey I went with one of the tite bond products . this is something I want to learn to do. its a free guitar . the perfect situation for figuring out these things and experimenting with somr ideas. if it doesn't work I can always try to replace the neck. a little more involved OJT next project I think is changing and adding some pickups to a First Act electric someone gave me .. I love to tinker especially when it doesn't cost me anything .. thanks again for looking and the comments

[johnmay]

well so far it is holding but I think it may be seperating by a fraction .it is so hard to tell .it sounds pretty good for an inexpensive guitar .I am still thinking of putting a thin metal ( of some type ) veneer .I know this will affect the sound but I do not know how .any thoughts?? I have considered copper, brass, stainless and maybe aluminum.I have an old Vox with what looks to be an aluminum saddle and it sounds ok .

[pHGTRSpider]

Good One John,

Looks like you've been successful. Play it as much as possible for a couple of weeks, that small separation may well be nothing. Copper would tarnish severely but brass would have to look really cool.

Something to think about & I believe there are others whom regularly contribute to this site who know considerably more about acoustic guitars than I, the thin metal veneer would have no effect on sustain but would dampen the volume? The sound of an acoustic comes from the sound-hole and the front face of an acoustic?

looking forward to some photos. cheers.

[johnmay]

I would have put some pics up already but I always get in a hurry . that may be where the seperation came from.the glue was 24 hr. set up and 24 hrs later it was strung up . if I had waited another day or so I may not have had a problem at all.it has been plyaed every day for four days and this morning it had held its tuning so maybe.......if it comes apart again I will take some photos of my entire process of the next try.. as long as I am learning and it isn't costing me too much I'm happy..I plan to take it out busking Friday evening (with a back up)see how it holds up

[johnmay]

well the seperation is getting more pronounced so I am going to steam it apart for one more attempt before giving serious consideration to the "clock idea". I will try to take pics of the entire process from start to finsih . maybe some one will see what I am doing wrong.

[skinnybloke]

Try splicing the joint together (as opposed to dowelling)...hot hide glue may be an option to stop the creeping. I did a neck repair further down the "Guitar Tech" forum, have a look. It's amateur, but there may be some hints for you.

[carol m]

I'm not sure I've got it pictured right, but couldn't you screw a metal brace plate at the back of the neck covering the break? And/or use a steel rod or two in place of the dowel?

[johnmay]

skinnybloke, on 20 September 2010 - 06:33 AM, said:

Try splicing the joint together (as opposed to dowelling)...hot hide glue may be an option to stop the creeping. I did a neck repair further down the "Guitar Tech" forum, have a look. It's amateur, but there may be some hints for you.

I followed that and learned a lot .I may do something similar but as this is an inexpensive guitar I want to try a few quicker and less time cunsuming options first. Plus I want to see if what I do changes the tone or sustain and if so will it be better or worse ... Thanks

[johnmay]

carol m, on 22 September 2010 - 09:29 AM, said:

I'm not sure I've got it pictured right, but couldn't you screw a metal brace plate at the back of the neck covering the break? And/or use a steel rod or two in place of the dowel?

I am going to try to take some pics and upload after I take it apart one more time and document my process .maybe I can save someone else some trouble later own. In the mean time I am haveing fun trying different things.

[johnmay]

johnmay, on 26 September 2010 - 03:17 PM, said:

I am going to try to take some pics and upload after I take it apart one more time and document my process .maybe I can save someone else some trouble later own. In the mean time I am haveing fun trying different things.

well I finaly got back to work on this thing still do not have a pic to show what I did but apparently Hide Glue was the answer . new strings and has been holding up to about an hour of play a day for three days . it ain't pretty but it plyas as well as it should and sound doesn't seem to be affected . thanks for all the advice and comments

[Briandb1222]

Cant help here but gorilla glue is wood glue...and very good but I don't know if it be good for guitars.

[johnmay]

well I have loaned the guitar to a friend until he can find a new one . his has apparently bit the dust .told him to go ahead and play the hound out of it. if it comes apart again I will try something else. gorilla glue scares me for guitars because it expands and can cause prblems if a person is not very careful.

[johnmay]

back one more time. this thing held up for two months with my friend using it at least four gigs and also hosting a couple of open mics where it was used by several people. then he said he went to get it out of the case and the head was just off . I am almost at a loss but I wonder if the sudden large amounts of rain interspersed with some intense days of heat might have worked a hex on this glue . time for drastic measures I will post a pic when I'mfinished