11 replies to this topic

[kasia-s]

Hi!

Solidwalnut, thanks a lot for your lessons!
I'm currently reading The Major Scale Chart: Part 3.

It's a bit challenging for me, but I'm determined to get through your tutorial.
I got lost in explanations of the name of chords.

Could you - or someone else - help me in decyphering it?

Quote

The maj7 chord uses the 7th note of the major scale which is only a half step under the root.

So, in Cmaj7, B is the 7th note of the major scale and it's a half step under the root C. Right?
What about the Fmaj7 chord? It also uses B (7th note of the major scale), but it's not a half step under the root F.

So maybe you start counting from the root, so the 7th note is E (one C omitted) and in this way the 7th note E is half step under the root F?

Difficult.
An it's only the explanation of maj7 chords.
As for the rest, I don't understand them almost at all!

I see that I'm confused by the similarity of these terms:

3rd scale degree
a third note
5th chord degree

Are "scale degree" and "chord degree" the same thing? And what's the difference between the 3rd scale degree and the third note?

Hope that when I get a reply to these questions, I'll be able to understand the rest of chord names explanations without asking.

All the best!
kasia

[thodwris]

Dzien Dobry Kasia...
All major chords are built from the major scales.You know that the pattern for major scales is TTSTTTS.When you want to find the chord for a note(F) you must first build the major scale of that note(F).After you do that you must then choose the 1-3-5 of the scale to get your major chord.So the 7 for the F major scale is the E as you said and it is a half step under/before the root...I am sorry but this is all I can do to help .
All the best,
Theo

[6string]

kasia-s said:

So, in Cmaj7, B is the 7th note of the major scale and it's a half step under the root C. Right?

Yes right

B is the 7th note of the C major scale.

but not the F major scale.



Fmaj7 has no B in it, Fmaj7 is F,A,C,E

Its uses the major scale of the Chord not the Key.

F=1,A=3,C=5,E=7

[6string]

Okay, I'm just looking at the lesson your refering to and
those are the notes for Fmaj7 but I have no idea why its
Fmaj7 and not just F7 etc,
7th's are confusing

[rwjones3]

If the chord is just listed as '7', instead of 'maj7' then the 7th is a flatted 7th. This is called the dominant 7th.

For F
The major scale is F G A Bb C D E
The major traid is the 1 3 5 of the scale F A C
The minor traid is the 1 flatted3 5 - F Ab C
The major 7th is 1 3 5 7 - Fmaj7 - F A C E
The Dom 7th is 1 3 5 flatted7 - F7 - F A C Eb

For chord spellings I minorized this sequence F A C E G B D F A C E G B D .... (You may recoginize this sequence as the ledger lines of the treble and bass cleff staff)
I practiced starting the sequence at any point, example A C E G B D F, C E G B D F A, E G B D F A C, etc.

Now I can spell any chord quickly, just need to think what notes need to be sharped or flatted.

To spell C9 - C E G Bb D
Bb11 - Bb D F Ab C Eb

Robert

[6string]

Solidwalnut has a type-o

"A,C,E,G gives us the Am chord", should be Am7

Since G is not 1/2 step before A its not Amaj7, its just Am7

[6string]

6string said:

Since G is not 1/2 step before A its not Amaj7, its just Am7

should be Since G is not 1/2 step before A its not Am,maj7, its just Am7, there will never be a minor major 7th because of the
flat 3rd.

I quit now

[Kirk Lorange]

Yes, kasis-s, when dealing with chords and the numbers that appear next to the chord name, you need to treat that name (like F or C or G) as the root, the "1", even when you're talking about the chords from a key.

So, for example, Am7 (even if it comes from the key of C) means that the chord is minor (the lower case 'm' denotes that and means it will use a flat 3) and it's a 'seventh' so it will also use a flat 7. The 1 is "A" and there will also be a 5 there ... all chords have a 5.

So the full chord is 1- b3 - 5 - b7 ... starting at A that's: A - C - E - G

[Kirk Lorange]

6string said:

should be Since G is not 1/2 step before A its not Am,maj7, its just Am7, there will never be a minor major 7th because of the
flat 3rd.

I quit now

There is in fact a "minor major seventh" chord, 6string. It's spelled AmMaj7 ... it's the second chord in Stairway to heaven and appears in several lessons I posted here.

[6string]

Okay, thanks Kirk.

[solidwalnut]

6string said:

Solidwalnut has a type-o

"A,C,E,G gives us the Am chord", should be Am7

Since G is not 1/2 step before A its not Amaj7, its just Am7

Thanks for that; it's been corrected.

Yes, the whole story with these '7th's can be a bit confusing. When I first began writing lessons many moons ago, I left off the sevenths completely when I wrote about learning the chords in the C major 'chord scale' (C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am and ahem....Bm). When it came to the seventh chord, Bm7b5, I left that out, too and as you can see, I substituted a Bm. I reckoned that all you need for a chord is three notes, the 1, 3 and 5. The seventh and others are extra when it comes to learning basic chord structure.

The only reason I did it this way was for simplicity and ease of learning for the beginner (using chords from the chord scale to write songs, etc.) But I began asking myself (plus with feedback from others): How could I tell someone about basic music theory on harmonizing the major scale without including the sevenths?

I guess there are opinions everywhere, but I just felt it was confusing and something that could be added later. And that's what I did in the beginning. I wrote a later lesson called 'The Seventh See' which introduced the concept of the sevenths. A sort of 'back door' approach. I could never figure out whether this approach was more confusing or not...

Anyway, I turned into a believer that you can't talk about harmonizing the scale without talking about the sevenths as well.

But in keeping with my main idea that all we need are the basic chords to write songs, I summed up this idea in the next one in this series The Major Scale Chart: Part 4.

I hope it's all clear for now. But let me know if it's not. Thanks again for finding the typo.

Steve

[solidwalnut]

kasia-s said:

Hi!

Solidwalnut, thanks a lot for your lessons!
I'm currently reading The Major Scale Chart: Part 3.

It's a bit challenging for me, but I'm determined to get through your tutorial.
I got lost in explanations of the name of chords.

Could you - or someone else - help me in decyphering it?



So, in Cmaj7, B is the 7th note of the major scale and it's a half step under the root C. Right?
What about the Fmaj7 chord? It also uses B (7th note of the major scale), but it's not a half step under the root F.

So maybe you start counting from the root, so the 7th note is E (one C omitted) and in this way the 7th note E is half step under the root F?

Difficult.
An it's only the explanation of maj7 chords.
As for the rest, I don't understand them almost at all!

I see that I'm confused by the similarity of these terms:

3rd scale degree
a third note
5th chord degree

Are "scale degree" and "chord degree" the same thing? And what's the difference between the 3rd scale degree and the third note?

Hope that when I get a reply to these questions, I'll be able to understand the rest of chord names explanations without asking.

All the best!
kasia

Hi Kasia--

It looks like you received all the answers you need, but let me know if I can help.

But let me just way one thing as far as the sevenths go: The reason that the chords are named as they are is just that this is where the sevenths fall. 'It is what it is'. The seventh note of the scale when you make the chord falls as it does because, as Theo says, because of the intervals of the notes in the major scale. The major scale intervals apply here no matter the note where you begin.

This has already been said in other ways, but I thought I'd give it a shot in case you needed more words!

Steve