New to Recording

Just!cE · #1 October 27th, 2006

Hi,

I've always wanted to record my music and have been doing so with a crappy headset mic. I'm wanting to get a higher quality sound and need some help.

First off, I've browsed the forum and found out about Kristal and Audacity. So basically I have the software, electric guitar, amp and soundcard that supports ASIO.

What I need to know is how to physically connect my pc to my guitar/amp. Do I connect my guitar to my amp and then my amp to my soundcard? This seems like a logical step, but what kind of cable do I need? At first look and trying to remember from memory, it looks like the line out on my amp requires a larger connecter pin than the one on my soundcard.

After all is connected, do I need any other downloads for Kristal/Audacity (I'm going to try both). I've read about plug-ins and it seems most of them are just for effects. I'm curious as to whether or not some of these plug-ins are essential or not. For now I am going to create effects with my amp and pedals and prehaps later on I will add effects post recording.

Any help would be appreciated.

cshude · #2 October 27th, 2006

Gotta be very careful about connecting output jacks from amps to soundcards- can blow out your soundcard. Would suggest putting in a little mixer between the amp and the soundcard so you can monitor and control the line-in. Or you can look at using a recording software that supports VST plugins that will allow you to use your computer as an amp modeler/effects processor while recording or for adding afterward. One big advantage that you have when adding the fx after recording a clean signal from the guitar is that you can do massive tweaking to get just the right sound. If you are recording with the fx already going, you are limited in what you can do in the production phase. At this point, I plug in direct from my electric or acoustic/electric into the soundcard and add fx later (hop over to Radio Shack and get a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter to pop on one end to go into the soundcard if you go this route.

Keep reading the other posts in this part of the forum as well. There are a ton of ways to attack this particular "problem".

Just!cE · #3 October 27th, 2006

Excellent, I appreciate your info.

Exactly what I needed. I will go get a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter.

Tekker · #4 October 28th, 2006

I made a lesson about how to connect to the soundcard here:
Connecting To Soundcard

As far as the effects go, I would try doing both methods (using your amp for effects and plugging your guitar straight in and using plugins for effects) and see which way sounds better.

I'm going to try to make a post this weekend using some of the free effects mentioned here with audio clips, preset files, and little info about using some of the plugins. So you'll be able to get an idea of the sounds these plugins are capable of.... Which is very good!

-tkr

OldG · #5 October 28th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by cshude

Gotta be very careful about connecting output jacks from amps to soundcards- can blow out your soundcard. Would suggest putting in a little mixer between the amp and the soundcard so you can monitor and control the line-in.

To add to this, most pedals/stompboxes with a level control will work for work also - no need to use the amp if you have pedals...

cshude · #6 October 28th, 2006

Good point OldG.

As far as a pretty good overview for the beginner to help provide some direction, you can check out this site:
http://www.audiominds.com/

Just!cE · #7 October 28th, 2006

There was a warning on one of those links

"WARNING! Never plug powered outputs that are designed to power speakers (like those from a power amp or a powered mixer) into your soundcard. Doing so can cause serious damage at best and a fire at worst. I know someone on another forum who plugged a 150watt amp into his soundcard and it caused a fire, melted the cables, and took out both his computer AND amp. So please be careful when dealing with this type of equipment!

Connections from non-powered mixers, direct ouputs, aux outputs, headphone outputs, effects units, and even direct guitars/basses are perfectly safe to be plugged into your soundcard.

If you are unsure of a particular connection, it is always better to be safe than sorry. So please ask before connecting it to your soundcard.

"

My amp has a line out and I'm wondering if it will be ok to connect to my soundcard. My amp fits in the powered output which is a no-no to connect, but it has a line out which seems to fit in the ok-to-connect category.

What should I do?

Tekker · #8 October 28th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just!cE

My amp has a line out and I'm wondering if it will be ok to connect to my soundcard. My amp fits in the powered output which is a no-no to connect, but it has a line out which seems to fit in the ok-to-connect category.

What should I do?

Hey Justice,

You are correct in that the line out is ok to connect to the soundcard. The powered ouputs (that are a no-no) should be labeled as "speaker outputs" or "cabinet outputs" (for guitar amp heads). Also if they give an "Ohm" rating (such as 4Ohm, 8Ohm, 16Ohm, etc) these are also speaker outputs and not ok to plug into your soundcard. Here are some examples of outputs that are NOT ok to plug into your soundcard:

If there is a "line out" on your amp, these are always ok to plug into your soundcard.

*EDIT* I have just updated that warning to include these images. So hopefully it'll be a little clearer for others in the future.
http://www.guitarforbeginners.com/fo...3994#post53994

-tkr

Just!cE · #9 October 30th, 2006

I appreciate your help with this, but I had a curve ball thrown at me. When I created the thread I was going off of memory. When I actually looked at my amp there was no "line out" but there was an "insert." I looked at the manual that came with my amp and it explains that this "insert" is for effects.

Now let me quote a section from Tekker's guide.

"Connections that are perfectly safe to plug into your soundcard are from non-powered mixers, direct ouputs, aux outputs, effects inserts, headphone outputs, effects units, and even direct guitars/basses."

I apologize for all the questions, I just want to be sure. Is this "effects insert" and my amp's "insert" one and the same and therefore ok to connect?

Thanks!

fly135 · #10 October 30th, 2006

An insert will work but you need to understand what you are doing.

An example insert would use a 1/4" TRS (Tip/Ring/Sleeve) plug. The Ring would have the preamp output, which is what you want to send to your computer. The Tip would have the power amp input, and the Sleeve would be ground. If you plugged a standard mono TR plug into the insert then you would be shorting the preamp to ground, which might damage your amp. Make sure you have the proper diagram for your insert jack and use a TRS plug splitter to get separate input/output connections.

Just!cE · #11 October 30th, 2006

So will the adapter in the following link work for me?

[edit]unfortunately it seems I need 10 or more posts to link to other sites. See attachment for picture of said adapter[/edit]

It has a tip, ring and a sleeve.

Tekker · #12 October 30th, 2006

Shorting the output of the preamp won't do any damage, you'll just simply ground the signal coming out of the preamp (which is uber small) so you don't have to worry about what kind of connectors to use. I've used TR connectors on my mixer's inserts with absolutely no problems.

-tkr

fly135 · #13 October 30th, 2006

That adapter could work. You'd be feeding the output of the insert to one of the input channels on the PC. The other input channel would then be tied to the input of the power amp. You probably wouldn't get a signal going to the amp, but it would probably be fine.

As far as a short causing a problem, you may be right Tekker. But my preference would be to wire it correctly to avoid a potential problem. Small voltage is no guarantee that a short will have no effect. It would be reasonable to say that there is little chance of it damaging the amp, but I would not recommend that someone intentionally wire it wrong.

Tekker · #14 October 30th, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by fly135

As far as a short causing a problem, you may be right Tekker. But my preference would be to wire it correctly to avoid a potential problem. Small voltage is no guarantee that a short will have no effect. It would be reasonable to say that there is little chance of it damaging the amp, but I would not recommend that someone intentionally wire it wrong.

It's not necessarily that there is a small voltage, it's that the only thing present on the cable is the "signal", as opposed to inside the unit where if you have an internal short you can have a real problem. There is typically only 9-12V inside the most units which is small voltage, yet they have high current and do cause damage when they short. Shorting "only" the line level signal it doesn't hurt anything. Equalizers work by shorting various frequencies from the signal to ground to remove them from the output.

If anything does happen, then it's because there is already a serious problem within the amp.... In the same way that getting shocked while playing your guitar indicates a major problem. Otherwise it is perfectly safe.

But on the other hand, using a Y-adaptor could protect your equipment from faulty wiring inside the amp..... On the other-other hand, if the amp is faulty and the amp blows, then I don't think I would want to play it anymore anyways and risk getting electrocuted.

Better to toast the amp than yourself.

-tkr

Just!cE · #15 October 31st, 2006

I purchased a TRS stereo adapter and connected my guitar directly to my soundcard. I did not get any sound at all. I'm not sure if this has something to do with me getting a stereo adapter instead of a mono adapter, the possibility of me not having ASIO drivers for my soundcard(which is capable of ASIO), or some other unknown factor.

I plugged in my cable to the soundcard's mic in and I was able to hear the guitar on my speakers. I tried a simple recording with Audacity and it worked fine. When I tried recording with Kristal it seemed that the signal was extremely weak. I turned up the volume and it sounded like Kristal had only recorded bits and pieces of me playing the guitar. It was not a smooth playback, not to mention the weak signal. I plan to get everything working by using my sound card's Line In input and hopefully that will resolve my recording issues with Kristal.

Tonight I am going to install ASIO4ALL and hope that works for me.

Question: Is the stereo adapter the cause of me not hearing playback (maybe just a weak signal) through my speakers? Should I get a mono one instead?

I am using a Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS.

Thanks