[Jim]

I'm talking about putting new strings on Vintage (EC signature strat) tuners. (The machine heads are listed as "Fender/Gotoh® Vintage Style Tuning Machines" in the specs). I have restrung more guitars than I can possibly count since I started playing in 1967, but my string poles have *always* had a hole in the middle - so I could just thread the string through it, twist it around and under, and that gave it the "grab" it needed to tighten itself as I turned the tuning knobs. It's always been a piece of cake - strings changed in maybe 15 minutes with another 10 to 15 minutes stretching and retuning until things pretty much settled down. Last night I spent TWO HOURS and got TWO STRINGS on....

My EC strat has vintage string poles - they are just bare metal (with no holes in them) and slot at the very top (and a hole where the end of the string is supposed to stick into). The way it came from the factory it MUST have been strung by machine, because the strings went around the poles as many time as could fit from bottom to top - neatly with one turn right over the next one - and the top end of the string neatly put into that slot/hole in the top. I tried to emulate this, and I think this as a BIG mistake!!!

I COULD NOT get the strings to "grab" onto the string pole so I could start winding them! I did a turn around the pole and then put the string under the first turn so that it could act as a holding point to get started, but it just kept slipping and I turned, turned, turned with nothing happening. I have a string winder (thank God, or I wouldn't have been able to even try - I've never needed to use it before however). I tried putting the end of the string after one loop through the slot on top just so it would hold the string in place and once it "grabbed" onto the pole I could release it from the slot, but that ended up with a circle of string popping off the pole after a few winding around. It just would not catch and I spent from 8:30PM to 10:30 PM and by hook and crook, I managed to get TWO strings on (the high E and B) - and only about two turn around the pole each. That's IT! I even had my wife hold the end of the string with pliers after one wrap around and pull on it to make the string tight against the pole while I wound - NADA.

WHAT is the secret to stringing these poles with no holes in them? Should I not have stared with the small strings first (which are not wound and so would have the least friction between them and the pole)? This morning I got the 3rd (G) string on in about 10 minutes - I don't know if it's because it's bigger or just because I learned some things last night. I expect the last 3 strings to be easier because they are wound and will have more innate friction against the pole (I hope!!!). But am I alone in finding this really hard to do??? I can't take a hour to change a high E string if it breaks during a gig (oh, and I DID break the first high E string I put on by mistakingly turning it's tuner when I was putting the B string on...so that one I had to start over from scratch - I was just so burned out by that point, cause I never usually do that...I'm really careful).

Basically, HOW do I get the string to grab so I can get the winding started and then the string will start holding onto the pole and then it's just like others guitars at that point. I feel like a total spaz - SO many people have strats and it can't be that hard!!! - but I've changed so many strings on so many guitars and this never happened before. I feel so frustrated - and I didn't get to play at all last night - that hurts! (and I must have gotten really tense too because my hands actually hurt today from all the pulling and pushing of the strings I did as the minutes ticked by with no results...)



Argh.
Jim

[nocat]

LOL... Take heart Jim there must be a way...!!!!

I found this on Fender's site:

Vintage keys - For these keys you will want to pre-cut the strings to achieve the proper length and the desired amount of winds. Pull the 6th string to the 4th key and cut it (make sure when you are pulling the strings that you are pulling the string taut). Pull the 5th string to the 3rd key and cut it. Pull the 4th string between the 2nd and 1st keys and cut it. Pull the 3rd string just about to the top of the headcap and cut it. Pull the 2nd string about a 1/2" (13 mm) past the headcap and cut it. Finally pull the 1st string 1 1/2" (38 mm) past the top of the headcap and cut it. Insert into the center hole in the tuning key, bend and crimp to a 90° angle, and wind neatly in a downward pattern (carefully as to prevent overlapping of the strings).

If your tuning keys have a screw on the end of the button, check the tightness of the screw. This controls the tension of the gears inside the tuning keys. DO NOT over-tighten these screws. They should be tightened to "finger-tight." This is very important especially on locking tuners.

Hope this helps...!!!

Cheers
Ben

[Jim]

Thanks Bro!

Wow - that's a lot of pre-measuring and cutting to do just to change strings - can you imagine having to do that quickly in the middle of a gig! (umm, which string is this...ummm...where should I cut it...oh, where is that printout that tells me how long each string has to be - oh 30mm - where's my little ruler??? Why couldn't they just put a freaking hole in the middle and that's the end of it???

That is also the *opposite* of how the strings were wound from the factory! They started at the bottom of the pole, went up to the top, and then just the end of the string was stuck down into the hole (seemingly just to get it out of the way).

I wonder if I should get the tuners changed if it's that much work to change strings with them...

Thanks again for finding that for me Ben! I'm guessing you don't have to deal with one of these "hole-less" string poles yourself...


Jim

[nocat]

I guess that is the reason behind the "vintage" thing... It was a pain in the butt, so they
changed it and made it easier...!!! LOL...!!!

Actually my bass has that type of tuner, and I found that I had to poke the end of the string
into the little hole first, and then wind the string down so it would grab... But the strings
on a bass are much thicker and all are wound, so it grabs a little easier...

LOL... Good luck with your yard stick...!!!

[Jim]

I'm not the only one...

I did a google search and found a number of people "stumped" by these tuners and other people who understood them trying in vain to explain exactly how to do it. I finally found one guys whose method I like, since all the strings are cut with the same general amount of extra left on (2.5 inches) beyond the pole they go in - and he made it pretty clear:

Lemme try.

For a start, I really like these vintage tuners and to me they are hella
easier to string up than others.


Ok, you thread the string through the body end and draw it up to the
machinehead (tuner) at the top end. My rule of thumb is to allow around
6-7cm (2.5 inches) to stick in and wind on. Others prefer less but thats
just my way. Cut the string with wire cutters 2.5 inches beyond the tuner.
Stick the end in the hole and bend it through the slot. Then loop it over
in a clockwise direction (so it ends up winding anti-clockwise) and if you
have enough slack, loop it again in the same direction only this time
UNDER the previous loop. Hold the string taught and wind accordingly.
Bring to tune. Season to taste.

So - I did the first 3 strings totally wrong according to the specs (but done the way they came from the factory - more or less). I just hope that they hold and don't break easily one me -- I wonder if I should redo them correctly and just sacrifice a set of strings to get it right... I plan on gigging with a friend tomorrow and if the new strings bail out on me, it will be bad...

Jim

[Rockerbob]

I install strings with the Fender Vintage tuners just like any other. I treat the slot in the peg like the hole in other pegs. I run the string through the slot, not down into the hole in the center, but as if the slot were the hole, then I tie them with a loop as I would any other. Forget those holes in the center.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Rockerbob

I install strings with the Fender Vintage tuners just like any other. I treat the slot in the peg like the hole in other pegs. I run the string through the slot, not down into the hole in the center, but as if the slot were the hole, then I tie them with a loop as I would any other. Forget those holes in the center.

RB - I was hoping someone would say that! The other method seems like such a pain in the a** - and I was actually thinking about using the slot as the hole - but I was afraid then the string would be starting too high on the peg- and maybe that angle would lead to easier breakage, etc. So I compromised and tried to do one loop around the middle of the peg and then came up and across the slot for the "grab" - and that's what eventually enabled me to get the strings to tighten...but the part of the string I put through the slot came out of the slot sometime during the winding process, so I've ended up with a real messy looking winding job on those strings I did. But if they hold, I'll leave 'em that way until my next string change and then try your method (maybe I'll even try Fender's method with the old strings first -- just to see how "easy" it is) but I think I'll be going with your way of doing it.

Thanks!!

Jim

[Lcjones]

..... which thusly caused me to run over to inspect the Strat and ....

Ok then. I've not had the occasion to change strings on the Strat. Matter-o-fact just picked up new strings this morning, some 11's for some slide work. I see now they are as RB & Jim say, the vintage style. ok ... This thread gets stickied on the desktop!

Jim, please post 8 x 10 color glossy photographs with a paragraph by each one explaining in detail the scene of the crime!

's to ya!

Les

[munky]

My bass has the same type of tuning pegs. I didn't think it was overly difficult to string it.

If you're really bothered by it and don't mind modding the guitar, just swap them out for some locking tuners. They work better anyway.

[Rockerbob]

Originally Posted by lcjones

Jim, please post 8 x 10 color glossy photographs with a paragraph by each one explaining in detail the scene of the crime!


Les

...and the Judge walked in, with a seeing eye dog...

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Rockerbob

...and the Judge walked in, with a seeing eye dog...

And meanwhile I had to go sit down on the Group W bench....

[Jim]

And I am such a blithering idiot I can't believe it!!!

I took off the remaining 3 strings and looked *carefully* at the end that had been on the peg - and it was indeed put on just as it says to do so on the Fender site... Looking at the factory strings still on the pegs they didn't look like they were on that way - but they were. So I put the last 3 strings on according to spec (cutting the string, bending it 90 degrees, putting it in the hole, circling it around once or twice and then tightening the tuning gear...AND IT WAS SO FREAKING EASY!!! I spent TWO hours last night getting TWO strings on and I got the last three on in like 10 minutes. Argh.

So, I now have a hybrid-strung strat - 3 strings put on by brute force and sweat and 3 put on the way the way they should be - and with minimum effort. And they stayed in tune pretty well right from the start and after playing for about 90 mins they are solidly in tune. I did overwind the A string - a big blob on there, and it was the hardest to settle down into tune, but the strat is back now - but I am still an idiot.

Oh well - I learned the HARD way, but I learned. I think it would be good to always have a small pair of needle nose pliars in the case to make bending the string at the tip easy. My string winder has a cutter built into it - as well as a stretcher and tuner - so I should be set now (except for a missing brain... )

I hope I saved someone else from going thru this - in that case it will be worth it!

Well -as I always say... NO BRAIN, NO PAIN!

Jim


OMG - I just made myself a Full Member too!

[nocat]

Glad you got it sorted out Jim... Don't sweat it Bro, sometimes we tend to over-complicate things...
I'm sure I would have gone through the same thing...!!!

Cheers
Ben

[737blues]

Ooooh! That's a relief. I've got these pegs on my Fernandes vintage Fender copy, which I've owned for about fifteen years now and I've been trying to work out what the problem is ....... (ignorance is bliss, trust me)

[allthumbs]

Congrats. Learning the hard way really burns it into your memory so it wasn't wasted time.