[WernHalen]

UGB, or anyone in the forum. Could any of you help me out with setting up the intonation on my Jackson... I bought the guitar and have not touched the intonation. It was not bad in the beginning but now it is horrible...

I have a Jackson Performer. I dont have the model of the rose system with me but am willing to get you the numbers if that would help...

I was told that someone would be willing to setup my guitar for R1000 that is almost 50% of what i paid for the guitar, and i am not willing to pay that. Like UGB said if you've done it once correctly you wont let anybody else touch your guitar.

[cshude]

Hop online and get "Teach Yourself Guitar Repair & Maintenance" by John Carruthers. I know Amazon has it, although I don't know if they ship to SA. It covers basic maintenance and repair (go figure!) for acoustics, and has a special focus on Floyd Rose setups. It also came with a DVD so you can watch all the steps. From watching and reading it doesn't look too hard- just a matter of taking your time and being careful. What I gathered from the book is that if you simply take the strings off of a FR, you're pretty much in for a long haul to get it set back up. Carruthers recommends using a block of wood to hold the bridge in position so that you have minimal adjustments once new strings are on. Take it easy.

Chris

[Cedric01]

A Jackson. A great instrument. Let's see if we can get that sweetheart intonated!

Plug the instrument into a tuner and using the fifth string as a starting point, play a note at the fifth fret. Remember exactly what the tuner tells you. Now go to the 17th fret on the same string, an octave up and see what the tuner says. If it reads identical, you don't do anything. But if it reads sharp or flat, the string has to be adjusted accordingly. If the pitch is sharp, move the saddle away from the nut (increasing scale length). If the pitch is flat, move the saddle towards the nut (decreasing scale length). To do this on a Floyd, unlock the lock nut and detune the string to take tension off the string. Loosen the allen bolt at the very front of the saddle. Now you can adjust the saddle. Retune all the strings and tighten the locks again. Check the intonation again and repeat. Repeat this whole process with each string.

Personally, I never use the open string with the 12th fret octave method since the nut on some instruments isn't where it's supposed to be and corresponding octave notes on a string results in a more accurate intonation across the entire playing surface. Remember to use fresh new strings when you intonate the guitar. Old strings will give you false readings.

[WernHalen]

Cedric,

I have been dreading this day, but cant put it off any longer... The instrument is unplayable... Even if I mess it up it can be worst than it is now. I never touch the guitar anymore because of the problem...

I'll give it a bash over the weekend, and let you know on Monday what is happening with the intonation...

[Ultimate Garage Band]

Stewart McDonald sells a tool that greatly speeds up intonating a Floyd. There's very little more frustrating in guitar maintenece and set up than dealing w/a Floyd. Once it's done, it's done, but brother what it takes to get there. Not difficult but almost like putting air into your car tire and then checking the pressure. If it's not right it's almost like having to take the tire back off the rim, reinstall the valve stem, put the tire back on, then put air in it again. It's just a BUNCH of repetitive steps each time, but you'll get it done. You've got ALL weekend. ;-)

[WernHalen]

Seems like I had all weekend... I never even touched the guitar... My son and wife took alot of time this weekend. My wife was feeling a bit under the weather and i had to tend to my son the whole weekend. (hopefully its morning sickness... )

Plus it was mothers day and we had to go to two families yesterday to visit and please everybody... Jeesshh...

[Cedric01]

Family always come first!

[jasoncohen]

what is the difference in a guitar with a floyd rose system and a regular guitar?

[Cedric01]

Floyd Rose
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Floyd Rose Original
Floyd Rose is the organization that licenses, distributes and manufactures the Floyd Rose locking tremolo invented by Floyd D. Rose. They also produce some complete guitars using the system. Floyd Rose owns the patents on the design, and licenses these patents to several original equipment manufacturers.

The Floyd Rose system combines a lock behind the neck bridge (the "nut") of the guitar, which prevents the tuning ("machine") heads from being used and holds the strings taut, with a "floating bridge", where the other ends of the strings are also vise-locked (hence, "double-locking"). The locking system helps to keep the strings in tune while the strings are slackened to a degree which wasn't possible with older tremolo systems, such as those found on Fender's Stratocaster, allowing "dive bombs" (i.e. rapid lowering of the pitch of a note). Since the tuning heads are ineffectual with the lock in place, the Floyd Rose bridge has heads for fine tuning; the guitar is tuned before the lock is put on, then fine tuned afterward.


Floyd Rose Pro
Floyd Rose Original is the oldest and most common design. It's left untouched, with only minor changes - it is the original design that first saw use in 1977 and was patented in 1979. Note that the name "Floyd Rose Original" is used to designate this system from so-called "Floyd Rose Licensed" tremolos.
Floyd Rose Licensed are made by other manufacturers that purchase a license from Floyd Rose. They usually copy the design of the Floyd Rose Original, but tend to deviate slightly from the original ways that ease the manufacturing process for a particular guitar maker. Most licensed systems use the same design (same deviation from original) that makes their parts inter-changeable throughout all the licensed tremolos, but not the Floyd Rose Original. The bridges of such systems are clearly titled "Licensed under Floyd Rose Patents" and Floyd Rose doesn't offer any support for them. Construction quality of Floyd Rose Licensed tremolos is arguably questionable, but generally, for licensed models that match the price of original, quality and durability is high and lower-end, cheaper tremolos make-trade offs in quality to lower the price. The best-known manufacturers of "Floyd Rose Licensed" tremolos are Schaller and Gotoh.
Floyd Rose 7-String is a redesign of Floyd Rose Original for 7-string guitars - in all other aspects it's just the same.
Floyd Rose Pro is a low-profile version of Floyd Rose Original. The bridge and arm design was changed in a way that guitarist's hand would be generally closer of strings while holding bar handle. The bridge has narrower string spacing (0.400 inches or 10.16 mm versus 0.420 inches or 10.66 mm at Floyd Rose Original). Fine tuners are slightly angled for more comfortable play.
Floyd Rose SpeedLoader Tremolo is a newer design introduced around 2003 that combines Floyd Rose Original with SpeedLoader system.

Saddles — basically, it's a box the string is locked in. There are usually six saddles, one for each string (seven for 7-string version of tremolo). Each saddle contains a long screw that fixes the string holder block inside it. Allen wrench is required to loosen or tighten these.
String Holder Block or Saddle Block — cube-shaped metal block that presses the string end into the saddle wall thus locking it tight.
Intonation Screws — screws that hold saddles on the base plate; when loose, saddles can be moved forward and backward, effectively changing intonation of a string. Allen wrench is required to loosen or tighten these.
Fine Tuners — screws that could be used to fine-tune strings (instead of machine heads) after nut lock is clamped tight; can be rotated with bare hands.
Tremolo Arm — the most visible part of mechanism, a handle that can be used to change played notes pitch up and down during play.
Nut — string clamp, installed as "zero fret" at the neck; has screws and braces called "locks" to hold strings that go through it. Allen wrench required to loosen or tighten these.
String Retainer — metal bar installed at headstock to retain strings that go to the machine heads.
Springs — springs that pull bridge clockwise around the pivot point. They are installed into tremolo cavity that is usually accessible from behind the guitar body and is hidden under plastic cover. There are usually 3 springs, however, to change the resistance of arm to more comfortable one, some guitarists use from 1 to 5 springs.
Spring Claw Hook — a connector between guitar body wall and springs; has special "claws" to attach the springs to. This part is usually mounted on a wall of guitar body using loose long screws that could be used to change the tension of springs and thus re-balance the whole tremolo system.
Allen wrenches — 3 sizes are usually supplied with tremolo. Small one is used for intonation screws, medium one is used for saddle block fixing screws and the large one is for nut screws. Floyd Rose Licensed systems usually use only 2 sizes of wrenches: they use the same size for saddle blocks' and nut's screws.
[edit]
Advantages
Most visible advantage in comparison to vintage tremolo system is a possibility to bend notes not only down, but also up.
Floyd Rose usually offer extraordinarily wide range in vibratos: normal floating bridge may bend notes 3-4 semitones down and 2-3 semitones up. Extreme custom variants of Floyd Rose-like systems are able to bend notes up to 7-8 semitones down and 4-5 semitones up.
Strings always stay in tune. Properly tuned Floyd Rose system (with a tight locking nut) are known to hold strings in tune for months.
Floyd Rose could be used to create a whole new range of sounds.
[edit]
Disadvantages
Generally, most widely criticized disadvantage of floating bridge is that it's hard to tune (i.e. balance) properly in first place and acclaimed balance is very sensitive to external factors. For example:

Moving the guitar can cause the bridge to move, changing the tuning;
Heavy palm muting moves the bridge (unless it is set up "Eddie Van Halen style" = the bridge lays flat on the surface of the guitar, with the inner springs tightened all the way, allowing only forward motion of the arm and bridgeplate, i.e., detuned notes);
Unstable ambiance temperatures (that are not uncommon at gigs, where ambient temperature usually increases while the act progresses) can cause strings to go out of tune;
A broken string ruins the balance of the bridge, thus ruining the tuning of all the other strings; even worse, a single broken string rapidly increases the tension applied to the other strings (the tension redistributes), which may cause breakage of other strings, i.e. the process goes on as a chain reaction; the single broken string could mean breakage of several others;
Resetting the guitar takes longer: if overall string tension changes (for example, because other brand or caliber of strings is used, or ambient conditions changes, as above), the bridge would require rebalancing (which usually involves adjusting screws inside the tremolo cavity); changing string gauge is often time-consuming.
Adjusting (bridge) intonation requires intensive work, as the saddles are held fast to the bridgeplate by bolts; this, in conjunction with the unique process of restringing and rebalancing a Floyd requires considerable patience and diligence.
Most disadvantages could be eliminated or at least eased by using a tremstopper.

Despite all these cons, lots of guitarists choose Floyd Rose because of several unbeatable pros. Playing big gigs with a Floyd Rose usually makes a guitarist have several backup guitars to change instrument quickly in case of string breakage or some other problems. Backup guitars are usually maintained back-stage by a guitar technician.

[edit]
Music impact and history
The use of the Floyd Rose was popularised by Eddie Van Halen. Many modern electric guitar players (Jason Becker, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Brad Gillis, Mattias Eklundh et al.) make heavy use of the whammy bar to generate new sounds that were not practical to achieve with traditional tremolo systems, while most thrash metal lead guitarists made heavy use of the bar merely to create unsettling sounds: Slayer's "Raining Blood" (Reign in Blood) features a solo consisting entirely of whammy bar noises (although the guitarists of Slayer actually used the cam based Kahler Tremolo System).

[Ultimate Garage Band]

Originally Posted by jasoncohen

what is the difference in a guitar with a floyd rose system and a regular guitar?

In a word, EVERYTHING.

A double locking Floyd system only does ONE thing, but, it does that ONE thing better than anything else. If you want a tremelo bridge system whereby you can use the 'whammy bar' (tremelo arm) to make your strings go totally slack, and I mean ZERO tension, and then back to IN TUNE, a Floyd is the ONLY way to go. Jimmy Hendrix could go down a few steps but not all the way slack and when he came back, he was out of tune.

Eddie Van Halen is the icon of a double locking Floyd player and he ushered in an entire genre of guitar players using that technology. Case in point, in the mid 80's I dumped my Gibson SG for a Warmouth Strat w/a single humbucker and a double locking Floyd. You couldn't play ANYTHING 'in the day' other than AC/DC w/o a locking Floyd guitar. No locking Floyd, no gigs.

[WernHalen]

Cedric,

I agree family always comes first. My wife had me in tears yesterday because of something special she did for me. Oh I love her so much...

I have heard of wordy posts but your beats them all hands down... That was a very interesting read though and now I know all there is to know about a floyd ... Hopefully i will have time to do it through the coming weekend... First have to get through a gig tonight and then fix my bakkie/truck/LDV (for the people in different countries out there ) I have to get it done though... I loved the old Jackson but never play her anymore, my wife loves her even more and she's complaining about me not playing the jackson as well. Even if I only do it for my wife.

By the way, I hardly ever use the floyd as a tremolo, I just like it cause the guitar never goes out of tune, and you can generally tune it much finer than with normal tuners. Normal tuners have the nasty tendency to jump just when getting to the right frequency, or to jump when tunning down. Especially on cheaper guitars.

A good lesson to everybody is this: never tune down always tune up to a note... Even when a note tuned down sounds right it will go flat when you play the guitar...

[Cedric01]

WernHalen

Your wife is very special and you are a lucky guy to have her in your life! I know she is special because she has good taste when it comes to guitars, that is Jackson guitars! LOL Yeah, the Floyd Rose explanation is a wee bit wordy but I didn't want to leave any stone unturned. By the way, is that truck of your's a Jeep? The reason I ask is I saw a pic of it somwhere on this site.

[WernHalen]

Cedric,

You said it, my wife is wonderful. THe truck I am talking about is actually a Ford ranger. I sold the Jeep to my brother after i could not afford it any more. See I became a dad and i have this wish of owning a PRS 513 one day...

My brother fixed up the gear box which he was having trouble with and on his first 4x4 outing he flipped the jeep on its side... Sad, but luckily not much damamge was done.

Oh by the way, if anyone was wondering how the gig went, it rocked. Not many people but they were up dancing and everything. I just loved it... I did not reallise ow far i have come with plane talk but I was complemented on my playing so many times last night that I must be getting better...

[Ultimate Garage Band]

I've been looking for that adjustment tool both in a catalog and on the web site and I can't seem to find it. I can't believe they don't make it anymore.

[Cedric01]

For the adjustment tool go to http://www.universaljems.com/cart/tools.htm