Intonation problems

daimyodan · #1 November 15th, 2008

hi all I've recently had my guitar set up but i realised the itonation still wasnt right. ive adjusted the saddles but there's not any room left to adjust and my A string especially is still sharp at the 12th fret. I think it must have been a manufacturing error (mismatched neck and body) as the guitar was a cheap beginners guitar. Ive even taken out the saddle spring to give that little bit more space but still its sharp. I think I might need to buy a longer neck. but would replacing the tremolo bridge by a new one have any effect (as I got the neck re-crowned at the time of the set-up so I dont really want to part with it too quickly, and I wanted to replace the original trem bridge anyway) What's everyone think?

bugly · #2 November 17th, 2008

try changing the guage ( to a lighter one) of the string - will make a difference, its cheaper then a new neck. BTW measure the distance from the nut to the 12 fret, the distance from the 12th fret to the saddle on the first string should be the same. Also look at your action; a higher action will require more adjustment for intonation then a lower one adjust the relief and the saddle heights to lower the action.

If the guitar is really shoddy then you may be throwing good money after bad.

daimyodan · #3 November 24th, 2008

ok i measured it. (i measured from where the string goes into the hole under the saddle is that right? or shud i measure from the saddle it self?) When i did this i found the distance from nut to 12 fret is about 1 cm less then distance from 12 fret to saddle. Is that the problem?

daimyodan · #4 November 24th, 2008

i think theres 2.2cms to the inch for all you using imperial measures

fly135 · #5 November 24th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by daimyodan

ok i measured it. (i measured from where the string goes into the hole under the saddle is that right? or shud i measure from the saddle it self?) When i did this i found the distance from nut to 12 fret is about 1 cm less then distance from 12 fret to saddle. Is that the problem?

You should measure from the points where the string is resting on the saddle, fret, or nut. Having a longer distance from 12th fret to saddle should make it flat at the 12th. So based on what you are saying I think you've measured at the wrong spot(s).

daimyodan · #6 November 24th, 2008

i have just measured again and the distance from nut to 12 fret is still half a cm longer than from saddle to 12fret (and the saddle is as far away from neck as it will go.) does this mean the neck is too short? my guitar neck and body are from a fender strat copy with 21 frets. I assume a 22-24 fret neck would fix this problem but i would prefer if there was an alternative.

fly135 · #7 November 24th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by daimyodan

i have just measured again and the distance from nut to 12 fret is still half a cm longer than from saddle to 12fret....

Well, not exactly "still". You reported that the distance from the nut to the 12th fret was shorter in your last post. A 1/2 centimeter either way is a big problem. I would go back to the store where you bought it and discuss this. The fact that your setup guy didn't point out this problem is also suspect. You should ask him about this as well.

daimyodan · #8 November 24th, 2008

oops i meant shorter still sorry

ye altho i bought the guitar about 2-3 years ago and only recently decided to change the pickups etc. so i dont think they'll gove me a refund

fly135 · #9 November 24th, 2008

You need to have a pro evaluate your issue. What you are reporting doesn't make sense. A longer string between the 12th and saddle should be flat.

daimyodan · #10 November 24th, 2008

it shud? ...oh I mite try a thicker gauge string...as it may be the fact that when i fret a note it is actually bending the note sharpening it.

daimyodan · #11 November 24th, 2008

i have just checked the itonation by using the harmomnics at the 12th fret and its now ok but when i fret the 12th fret on the A and low E string it is sharp....?

Rockerbob · #12 November 24th, 2008

how old are the strings? Old strings do strange things. 2 months is old for strings.

daimyodan · #13 November 26th, 2008

not old really and hardly used. I only put them on really to try the new pickups out (which work great

btw) so i dont know the problem.

bugly · #14 November 27th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by daimyodan

i have just checked the itonation by using the harmomnics at the 12th fret and its now ok but when i fret the 12th fret on the A and low E string it is sharp....?

how did you check the intonation - the fretted note at the 12th fret should be in tune with the harmonic at the 12th fret. The harmonic is always going to be intune with the open string.

The 5th fret can be sharp after all the guitar is a tempered instrument. THe notes are not ever going to be precicly in tune on every string and every fret its a consequence of having frets. THe fret spacing is an approximation of the correct positon it should not be a straight line across the board if the intonation was to be fully compensated.

So check your strings, check your action and check your intonaton use a good tuner not your ear. High actoin can cause intonation problems to be exagerated also try changing the guage to a lighter string as I stated earlier light strings require less compensation for intonation. Finally check that the fret spacing is correct. Its highly unlikely not to be but stranger things happen.

daimyodan · #15 November 27th, 2008

the harmonic at the 12th fret is in tune but the freted 12th fret is sharp. I will check the things you've mentioned though.