[bigj480]

I've been wanting a guitar for a long time but recently my cousin got one and now my brother and I both NEED one, urgently. The problem is that, just like my other hobbies, once I start looking to buy I have a hard time keeping within my starting budget. So I need help selecting a guitar and amp. I've heard it said that one should look at what the guitarists that they listen to, to help with the decision. The problem is we like alternative, classic rock and rock, but mainly hard rock and metal. There are many people and guitars on that list, so that doesn't help much. I've also heard that beginners with a tight budget should avoid getting a cheap guitar by getting a small/cheap amp if necessary, which makes sense me. So hear is the deal, I have $400 to spend on a guitar and amp and my brother has $200 for a guitar only. I'm not sure weather 24 frets or a trem bar is necessary but it's something I wouldn't mind having. I know this question is asked a lot, but your advice on what guitars and amp to consider would be greatly appreciated. Oh, and no "flying Vs" please.

[bengarrion]

Hi bigj480,
Everyone I know, including myself; started playing by using an acoustic guitar.
Apart from the fact that you don't need an electrical supply near-by, it's probably much better to learn the basics on an acoustic first before turning to an electric guitar & amp. Hope this helps you a bit and also acoustics are much, much cheaper than their solid, electric counterparts. Cheers mate, Bengarrion.

[fly135]

Check out Craigslist. I got a Fender Strat HSS MIM and Deluxe 900 amp for $400, all like new. Deals show up.

If you want to go new, you can get a Squire 51 and Epiphone Valve Jr Combo for under $250. Throw in a couple pedals or a MultifFX box and you'll be making some noise for sure.

[allthumbs]

I'm with fly. The Epi Valve Junior is the best bang for the buck amp out there. Look at Agile LPs, they also are a great bang for the buck and upgrade really well.

[Stratrat]

The Squier 51 definitely has to rank as one of the great deals in guitar....but since your budget is a little higher, I'll throw my .02 in with a new addition to the ranks....if you're near a Guitar Center, take a look at the Schecter Gryphon ($399, so it's right at the top edge of your budget). It's a model made exclusively for GC, has twin humbucking pups that can also be split (by pulling up on the tone knob), so you can get either single-coil or humbucker sounds out of it. They're made in Korea, but setup here in America at their Burbank (CA) factory.

The reason I discovered this gem is that I just brought one home less than an hour ago. The quality of the components is better than my MIM Fender Strat, and it plays like an absolute dream!

[Stratrat]

Addendum - sorry, just re-read your post and saw that your budget was $400 for the guitar AND amp! The recommendations you got above from Allthumbs and Fly135 are very good - the only things I could add that you might want to check out would be:

Guitar - the Yamaha Pacifica 'Strat copies....they seem to get pretty consistently good reviews in the budget guitar category.

Amp - The Roland Cube 15. This is a "modeling" amp, and would give you a great variety of sounds without having to buy stompboxes. They have settings for everything from super-clean to high-gain fuzz distortion, along with several onboard effects (reverb, echo, phaser, flanger, etc.). Musician's friend has the Cube 15 on sale right now for 69.99, which is a pretty killer deal - that's almost half the price of it's little brother, the Micro Cube!

[bigj480]

Thank all of you for your advice. I understand that a lot of people learn on acoustic, but I can't see a huge difference in difficulty so I'm going for electric. I looked at every recommendation and checked out a few other guitars. My problem is that I am stuck on a trem bar, is that a bad move? I know it's not used extremely often, even in metal, but if I don't get it I think I will regret it once I learn how to play. Right now I have three guitars on my list, my current favorite is the Agile PS-924WE. This is based on the reviews on the net, 24 frets and trem bar. My second favorite is the Schecter Gryphon that Stratrat recommended. The only reason that it's my second choice is the lack of a trem bar but that may be an naive move so please tell me if you think that I'm giving the bar too much consideration. The third on my list is the Peavey Limited EXP HB, the only reason it's on the bottom is because the reviews didn't seem as good, but I know that reviews can be subjective. So I'm pretty sure it will be one of these, but feel free to throw one in that is comparable to these or explain why I should change my preference. I'm going to get a mini-amp until I out grow it. Volume isn't that important to be right now, but I know that tone my not be as good with a mini-amp either. So consider it a budget of $400 for a guitar only, I'll get a $50-$75 amp for now and upgrade later. See, screw that budget.

Agile PS-924WE
rondomusic.net/ps924.html

Schector Gryphon
guitarcenter.com/shop/product/buy_schecter_gryphon_limited_edition_flametop?full _sku=102682226

Peavey Limited™ EXP HB
thestereoman.com/programs/shop/showitem.cgi?guitars&12416.dat

I can't post links because of my post count. I'm sure you can figure it out though.

[Stratrat]

Personally, I think the trem bar is overrated. I have one on my 'Strat, and rarely use it. You can always get a "whammy pedal" that has the same effect, and as a side benefit it won't mess with your guitar's tuning as much!

But the bottom line is that it's your guitar - if a trem bar is important to you, then it doesn't matter if anybody else thinks it's an important thing to have.....the guitar that you love and can't keep your eyes (or hands!) off of is the one you'll play most!

For the price range you're looking at for the amp, take a GOOD look at the Roland Cube 15 - it's right in your range, and I don't think you'd regret it.

[bigj480]

Well, ignoring the bar, is there a difference in quality between the Schector and Agile? Of coarse the only way you could compare is to have played both. I would try to check out both, but I wouldn't really be able to make a comparison because I'm a newb. I guess I could check for feel if I could find a agile. I did like both of them, so it's a hard decision. If you do a comparison they are pretty close.
Same top material, same body material, same # and size frets etc.. A few differences are "hot" humbuckers(good?) vs Duncan designed humbuckers, Groover tuners vs good factory tuners, a trem bar on the Agile and a better finish on the Schecter. Any experience with Agile guitars? Tit for tat?

BTW, I don't mean for you to have to keep answering my dumb questions, I'm almost done.

[Stratrat]

I've never even seen an Agile guitar in person - the only thing I know about them is from their website and reading recommendations from others. I've seen a lot of favorable reviews of the Agile guitars both here and elsewhere. As far as the Schecter, all I can tell you is that so far I'm very impressed with every aspect of it - it looks, feels, sounds and plays like a very quality guitar.

The Schecter and the Agile both have Grover tuners (Rondomusic specs them, and I know the Gryphon has them). They look like very comparable guitars.....the main difference looks to be that the Agile has the trem bar and the Schecter doesn't. The biggest difference for me would be that I was actually able to play the Schecter before purchasing it.....I'm very leery of buying guitars sight unseen unless I have absolutely no alternative.

Keep in mind that I'm far from the most knowledgeable and/or most proficient guitar player in the world.....I'm just giving you my opinions. I do a lot of reading and research before I purchase things, but I don't have anywhere near the amount of actual "rubber meets the road" experience that a lot of the folks here do. I'm just another hack wailing away and enjoying the noise that I make a little more every day.

[bigj480]

Yeah, I agree about buying sight unseen. I guess if I want a trem bar I can always get a guitar that has one way later if I still feel the need. I'll probably visit GC this weekend and I doubt I will walk out empty handed.

[allthumbs]

You can only buy Agiles on line now so it is unlikely you will find them in stores. Take a look at Ravens too. They are a good bang for the buck also. You can find them new on Ebay sold from the store.

[fly135]

You're likely to give up some sustain with a tremolo bridge. And you're likely going to find the trem useless while you are learning.

[Stratrat]

I agree on both counts, Fly. Besides which, you usually end up having to tune more often than on a non-trem guitar. Divebombs and vibrato are fun, but don't really add much to the learning experience in the beginning. If anything, it serves as a distraction because you spend time screwing around with it instead of practicing what you should be practicing!

[MCH]

I think for a younger person, the electric guitar is better to start with. It has cool factor. You probably won't loose interest because of all the different sounds you can make. After awhile all the fooling around will probably start translating into some actual progress in playing real guitar and interest will probably last longer. Of course this can be a little more expensive. Especially when you start buying all the add ons for electric guitars.
Acoustic is very practical and will sound great when you start to learn how to make proper chords and rythmes. But the acoustic can be a turnoff if the progress is slow.

The key is to get a guitar that you will want to play. The more you play the more you will learn.