[Frankenstrat2]

Lightening Boy asked me:

Barry,
I'm curious about your p/up's.
I've heard EMG's in strats and they sound great.
I also had Chris Kinman wire me up a reverse polarity p/up with formvar wire. It sounds terrific in my strat. (He actually lived 30 min's away from my previous address, and he is a very nice guy).
How would you compare the EMG's to Chris's P/up's ?

My reply:
I was looking for 'more' out of my strat pickups than what the traditional Fender passive pickups offered. Being a pretty big fan of Dave Gilmour and his tones on various recordings I bought a used EMG DG-20 harness (pickups and tone pots) Its active and noiseless. I installed it into my Frankenstrat1 and really liked them because:
1. noiseless
2. easy to install
3. tone shaping pots actually did good stuff- consisting of the EMG SPC (strat presence control- a mid boost) and the EMG EXP (mid-cut, treble and low mid expander- think of it as a strat scoop- like the 2&4 quack positions of a 5-way switch, but even more-so.)
All in all a great set-up. MUCH more pronounced mid boost than the passive Fender Clapton stuff or the Griblin harness.
Negatives-
1. 9v battery under the pickguard. Yes- it will last 1500 hours IF you always remember to unplug the guitar- DUH! Otherwise- welcome to Strat pickguard disassembly and restringing class.
2. The EMG alnico pickups themselves which are supplied with the DG-20 are kind of 'anonymous' sounding. you don't get a real sense of 'strat-like' tone. But then again- if you really listen to Gilmour and study how he gets his tones- its not from the pickups really. He uses multiple MXR EQ pedals in different configurations along with all his other FX to shape his 'strat' tones.
3. The EMG tone pots add a significant amount of hiss, particularly the EXP. You wouldn't notice it in the mix of a live performance except perhaps in a quiet solo passage, but it might be deemed unacceptable for recording purposes depending on the ambient noise floor surrounding the guitar.
Whew!
On to the Kinman part of the story-
A friend of mine built a strat clone and installed a set of Kinman Woodstock Plus pickups based on his research. I played the guitar and loved the tone of the pickups. Much more vintage strat heritage evident, yet still noiseless.
I was in the process of assembling my Frankenstrat2- a real '55 neck married to a Custom Shop 56 Relic two sone sunburst one piece alder body.
I sent an e-mail to Chris and inquired if he would be willing to build a harness for my strat using his Woodstock plus pickups and the EMG electronics from the DG-20 set.
I thought these parts could all work together I could have the best of all worlds. I mainly play live, so the hiss was not a big deterrent. The midboost of the EMGs adds enough extra harmonics to make the front end of my amps sing and push my OD boxes even further harmonically without making them louder. It actually makes a single coil seem like a humbucker, except with more definition. The EXP is perfect for scooping out the mids and getting those hollow, woody, Hendrixy almost acoustic sounds, perfect for clean rhythms and cutting through the mix.
I cant make this long story short- but-
Chris worked with me on this project long distance. I purchased the pickups and sent him the EMG electronics, which I was able to purchase as aftermarket parts. Chris researched the wiring of the EMG pots, and found that although the EXP pot is NOT supposed to work with passive pickups, if he wired it into the harness with the SPC it did in fact operate properly.
When Chris wired the harness together and dropped it in his test guitar and fired it up, his exact quote was: "Holy Sh*T!"
I can't say enough good things about Chris, and how terrific he was to work on this project. I made some mistakes in the initial wiring of the harness when it was shipped back to me. He had me ship the whole harness back to him, and spent a lot of time testing the correct wiring. In Chris' own works- he is a perfectionist.
After several months of back and forth from OZ to NYC, I finally received a harness with a marriage of EMG electronics and Kinman Woodstock Plus pickups in a solderless arrangement that installed flawlessly into my Frankenstrat2 in less than 15 minutes.
I have had that guitar to the Tampa ToneFest in Florida where I was asked to demo the single coil tones for around 50 boutique and vintage amplifier afficionados. Everyone complimented me on the stellar tones this guitar produces. I recently took it to a major jam session in LA during the NAMM show and had similar response- 'What kind of pickups are those!!!??!!'
And because this is the Bottleneck Forum- keep in mind that this is my main guitar for electric slide. Of course my Strat is a wolf in sheeps clothing. It appears to be a '50's strat, and quite a few parts of it actually are- but under the hood- its a hot-rod built for screaming singing slide tones.
Hats off to Chris Kinman for his tireless dedication and enthusiasm in pursuit of great tone.
If you decide to inquire- ask him about Barry's Frankenstrat Harness. He'll know...

[LightninBoy]

Barry,
I installed a Seymour Duncan "Jeff Beck Junior" in the Bridge of my '78 burst in the mid 80's, and it's great. The original had that "ice pick in the forehead" tone. I love the guitar, it has extremely nice timber and workmanship for a '78, w/ stock chunky brass saddles and a brass jack plate, gold bridge and bar. (Tuners are silver). I think it may be a special model.
Strung 13>.56, if you put your ear up on the horn, it nearly deafens you.

In my custom strat I had a Duncan JB Humbucker in bridge, Duncan cool rails in middle, and Duncan "opposed pole piece double stack humbucker" at neck(same size as a single coil).

I'm constantly changing the p/up's in this guitar, as well as the wiring.
I had a pull pot installed, so I can have all p/up's on together and various combo's. I also had a coil tap switch installed.
I had the Kinman in the middle, then the neck, but at the moment I have a Bartolini in the neck, and the coolrails back in the middle.
I've also messed around with polarity a lot.
I find the Bartolini gives me that beautiful clean strat neck sound, but it's a little bassy for O/D.
The cool rails is great for that quacky "out of phase" sound in the 4/5 pos, and also dirtys up well.
I've never been real happy with the Duncan JB Humbucker however.
I'm even thinking of replacing it with a p-90 (yeah, I know, I'm a nut).

I had a lake placid blue '64 L series back in the 80's w/ rosewood board, clay dots.
I had the board contour planed from the 12th fret up, as the strings were choking when bent.(yeah, I know, I'm a nut).
When I got it back home, I noticed the pole pieces looked like they had been sanded back(all shiny) and they were flat instead of staggered.
The penny dropped, and I went back to the shop, and he denied switching them.
I chased him around the shop for a few minutes but I couldn't catch him.
(He ran away out the back).
I've since heard that this sometimes happens.
I sold the guitar not long after and bought a Levinson Blade.
Active circuitry with treb/bass or mid boost.
It was a poorly made but expensive guitar, which sounded too good to be true.
After about a year I realised that it was a little too good (clinical sounding) if that makes any sense. (yeah, I know, I'm a nut).
I then bought my custom strat.
I do miss the mid boost though, and have toyed with the idea of installing a pre-amp.
The road to good tone is long and winding, and sometimes confusing.(Psycho-acoustics?).

[Frankenstrat2]

Well strats are interesting guitars to get involved in. I think it might be like building custom hotrods from parts. You could have a cherry '57 chevy, or you can get a junker and soup it up.
I was never a purist when it came to guitars, keeping them all original. But thats what fuels the collectible vintage guitar market. So many guys like me screwed around with their guitars customizing them in ome way or another, not always with the best of results. That reduced the supply of authentic, unadulterated 'mint' condition vintage guitars and made them rare even though there have been many thousands of strats made every year for decades.
One thing I did learn about strats, and vintage guitars in general, in fact all guitars is that there is little correllary between price and value. You can walk into any major guitar store and find a great playing and sounding instrument for a few hundred dollars, and also play instruments that are in the high thoiusands that have few redeeming qualities other than the asking price.
An old guitar does not guarantee a wonderful instrument, nor does a big price tag or a pretty face. I have heard of players who went through 50 or more Mexican strats and came away with one that was 'magical'. Strats have always been funny that way. Sometimes the neck, body and electronics come together in a way that just 'works', while another one off of the same assembly line is just dead sounding. You would think that in this modern age of CnC machines and consistent tolerences throughout the manufacturing process that all guitars would be created equal, but apparently this is still not the case. There will always be that undefinable 'Mojo''.
And then there is the players attempt to add extra oomph to those guitars that are 'mojo-challenged' by swapping pickups, refinishing, planing necks, re-fretting, routing, and other unspeakable horrors that make the vintage enthusuasts shudder.
Meanwhile-to address your reply- I do have a friend who put together a partscaster with a pre-routed body, ordered a specially configured pickguard and installed creme covered P-90s. Its a strange looking affair, a strat with p-90s. Sort of- 'Whats wrong with this picture?"
I like P-90s. I have two guitars equipped with them. Great for slide. My 57 Les Paul Jr screams. Its a classic. My other P-90 equipped guitar has custom pickups that were special ordered to be underwound. Its a more refined guitar- beautiful cleans, not raucus like the Junior. Sedate.
I cant recall ever seeing a P90 in the bridge position of a strat along with two single coils, but hey- why not? It probably would be killer for slide.

[Frankenstrat2]

By the way- early Duncans from the era you refer to were the 'golden age' of Duncans, IMO. When he was starting out and really making them one-off with great care in small quantities. Plus now they have 20 years of settling in on them now in addition to your own mojo.
I have a 1975 cherry red 335TD that I bought brand new, gigged with, and put away in a closet for ten years. Its a far better guitar now than when I bought it new. Something happened. Oh yeah- I know. I took up slide guitar, raised the action and put bridge cable strings on it. Dave Hole had that figured out long before I did.

[LightninBoy]

Yeah, heavy strings make a big diffence.
Especially with a heavy guitar.
Magnets age too, less pull on the strings, among other things.

Also, a guy brought his '64 strat up to my place about 5 years ago so I could "try before I buy", through my own amp.
It was a transitional 64, with veneer rosewood board and pearloid dots.
I just didn't like it. Sounded dull, no mojo, and the board had nearly worn through.
Not a patch on my old 64. (If it hadn't been molested by that f@#$%^*$##, my search for tone would have ended right there).

I checked out two strats at a shop in Brisbane a couple of years ago, both 68's.
Both burst's, but both completly different.
One was muddy n nasty, the other soft n sweet.
As you know, the p/ups were wound with differing amounts of winds back then, and some were hotter than others, maybe by mistake, or by design, I'm not sure.
The price was way too steep, but I nearly bought the muddy n nasty one.
Its one of the things I like about old strats, they're all different.
Not necessarily all good though.

I did some work (set up) on a friend of mine's late 60's firebird with p-90's, and I played it through my rig.
Man you should of heard it sing through my Chandler pedal.
Rocked way harder than my strat.
I begged him to sell it to me but he wouldn't part with it.
Not as versatile as my strat, but it would have been killer for slide.
I really like the clean tones of a strat for slide though.
Wish I had the bucks for both a Gibson and a strat for slide, but I couldn't even afford to restring em all lately.

I used to take 3 guitars to every gig, a '90 butterscotch Tele for Spanish, Strat for Vestapol and Strat for standard.
Cost me a freakin' fortune in strings, and became too much to lug, so I eventually sold the Tele.
The Tele rocked for Spanish(A or G) tuned slide, sometimes I wish I'd kept it.
Had that DBX tone control.

I seen a sweet little LP junior with a p-90 at a second hand shop in Tweed Heads.
I never got to buy it, but I wanted to. Cheap as well.
I bet they really sing with a slide.

Your right about price and value.
I set up a few Squiers for slide for some of my students, and A/B'ed them with my '78.
Had me going for a while with one of em, I was about to trade in mine for a Squier.
I spent hours, nearly went crazy, but my '78 finally won the battle.
Not by as much as I would've liked though.

[Frankenstrat2]

A Junior with a P-90 is killer. I'm talking about the single cut ones with the dog ear P-90s. Cheap little student guitars of the day with necks like baseball bats. Mississippi Queen, eh?
Of course the 'other' Junior is the SG shape ones, and we know how great they sound for slide, and the regular SGs too.
I guess the thing with Strats, and Teles for that matter as well is you have to fight them a bit- nothing comes easy- you have to work for it. But once you get hooked on single coils, its hard to go back to humbuckers- they all sound so muddy and poorly defined. The EMG SPC I have installed does fatten them up considerable and add a lot of harmonic content. It might give the impression of a humbucker, but there is no way any humbucker will ever have the definition of a single coil or p-90.
Of course there are exceptions, like the real '59 Les Paul Standard I played last year with its original PAFs. But it was also valued at @$200,000. Sounded like every last penny too.
b.

[allthumbs]

On another forum, the guys have just discovered the kinsmen woodstocks. They are going nuts about them. Some major gas going on over there right now. I am afraid to look at the price of them.