[xRIFFxRAFFx]

ok guys are trans amps getting as good as warm sound as the tubes amps? i am soon going to be buyin a new amp and was looking at one of those fender amps with the 4 x 10 inch speakers but am worried about the maintenance of the tube amps so whats your thoughts? is the amp modeling now just as good as tubes themselves. raff

[bugly]

Tube amps esp power tubes have some inherent adventages over trany amps - when a tube is driven to distortion the product is even order harmonics which sound pleasing to the ear and actually add to the tonality of the guitar. Bipolar trannys produce odd order harmonics when driven hard, odd order harmonics do not sound pleasing to the ear. You can use mosfet output staged amps - they do sound warmer then bipolar transistors but still dont have that breakdown effect which happens as you increase the input.

However to take advantage of the tube sound you need to drive the amp hard ie its damn load, great if you are playing in a concert hall but shite if you play casualy at home and you want to retain cordial relations with your neighbors (esp if you play as umm badly as me).

Modelling amps sound good but dont have the subtly and nuances of a tube amp (yet) but they do sound pretty good. I tought my old Valvetronix was nice but the sound of the new Peavey Vypyr is very impressive indeed. It may not sound exactly as the amp its modelling but the sounds are useable and work at all sound levels ie you dont have to deafen yourself to get a nice warm distortion.

My take is modelling amps are great value and sound good but they dont replace the multi thousand dollar Vox's and Marshells and Dumbles. Maybe one day but not yet - but they are much more versatile for the home and practice enviroments.

Cheers

[allthumbs]

Agreed bugly. The trans are getting a lot closer to emulating tube but, not quite there yet. They do , however have a lot of bells and whistles that appeal to many players when you start getting int amps in the thousands of dollars range.

[Stratrat]

Originally Posted by bugly

...However to take advantage of the tube sound you need to drive the amp hard ie its damn load, great if you are playing in a concert hall but shite if you play casualy at home and you want to retain cordial relations with your neighbors (esp if you play as umm badly as me)...

There's the crux of it right there. Tube amps sound best when you can crank them up to where you're driving the power tubes instead of just the preamp tubes. For most home players, that's not a reality - even a 5W tube amp is pretty doggone loud when you get it into its "sweet spot"....plenty loud enough to annoy everybody else in your house and your neighbors too! A good solid-state modeling amp will do a fine job of getting a nice overdriven sound at tolerable volumes for home practice...it won't sound exactly like a good tube amp being pushed into natural overdrive, but close enough.

Raff, I'm assuming that you're talking about home practice/playing, as opposed to gigging or jamming with a band. Unless you have a big practice space, lots of soundproofing and/or very tolerant neighbors and family members, a tube amp and 4x10 cab is going to be way overkill for that purpose. You'll either make a lot of enemies, or spend all your time with the volume knob set at about 1-2, wondering where all that warm, luscious "tube sound" is (hint: it's up above '5' or so on that volume knob). You can use a distortion pedal to get your 'dirt', but that's still not the wonderful tube overdrive you paid all that money for.

I have three tube amps - a 15W combo with a 12" speaker, a 22W combo with a 12" speaker and an 18W head/cab with 2-10" speakers. Any of them are far too loud to crank up into their "sweet spot" at home for practice, and plenty loud enough to bury my drummer when jamming with him in a small practice space if I turn them up. At home, I spend much more time plugged into my Roland Micro Cube or Vox AD30VT than any of the above amps. I can get the sounds I want at tolerable volume levels and avoid making enemies of all my neighbors.

As far as the question about maintenance - you will have to replace the tubes in a tube amp once in a while, and if it's not a self-biasing (cathode-biased) amp you should have a tech set the bias when changing power tubes. Solid-state amps require no maintenance other than normal care (i.e. not exposing them to liquids, not abusing them, etc.)

[lorispencer]

i have both and they both have their place and both work fine for me but i never dirty up my sound. you can get good sound out of both if the tran amp is a quality amp. you can buy cheaper trans amps then tube amps if cost is a significant issue. also, tube amps weigh more which can also be an issue.

[xRIFFxRAFFx]

ya i hear ya on that right now i have a trans fender fm 212 which is constantly at 1, i was thinking of one of those micro cubes to, you can get them with 4x4inch speakers, had and old one many years ago before micro cubes came out and it was a mini stack, wicked sound, but no good for gigin so i am guessin i will have 2 buy to amps, lol

[bugly]

Originally Posted by lorispencer

... you can get good sound out of both if the tran amp is a quality amp....e.

Totally agree, infact for a true clean sound (ie very little distortion) you would arguably be better off with a MOSFET stage output tranny amp as the distortion produced is very low for a well desighned amp. You would loose the dynamic response to some extent.

[Stratrat]

Originally Posted by bugly

Totally agree, infact for a true clean sound (ie very little distortion) you would arguably be better off with a MOSFET stage output tranny amp as the distortion produced is very low for a well desighned amp. You would loose the dynamic response to some extent.

I don't know if it's MOSFET or not, but the Roland JC 120 (solid-state) seems to be revered by many as "the King of Cleans".

[xRIFFxRAFFx]

Originally Posted by Stratrat

I don't know if it's MOSFET or not, but the Roland JC 120 (solid-state) seems to be revered by many as "the King of Cleans".

so what about the line 6 amps? or even the mesa boogie ones? this is the hard part trying to pick one thats the most versitile, cause as much as i like one style i dont just play one style lol

[Noodler]

I've never, ever heard a bad word about the Vox Valvetronix. It's probably the best of the solid state amps. Yes it does have one valve in it, but only to help modelling be more realistic. It's a great compromise between volume, cost, tone, etc.

My experience with Line 6 is this: "With presets dialed in by some of the world's leading guitarists." It's gimmicky and marketing-rich and great for high-gain metal, and even cleans but not for that touch-sensitive in-between overdrive/bluesy stage.

Another thing about valve amps is that if you're used to playing through a solid state amp, they are more dynamic and touch sensitive. If you hit a note harder it might become overdriven. So when you plug into a tube amp, you've got to improve your technique because they are as a rule more touch sensitive... which is more fun when you are used to it.

There is a certain high frequency thinness that all solid state amps still have, but if you don't know what I mean, then don't find out! Just buy a Valvetronix or Cube or something and be happy. Lots of nice sounds to be had.

What the others have said is right. I have two valve amps and they never get above about 3...without complaints anyway. I get my dirt from pedals mostly. Tube amps are very loud. I recommend pedals like the Boss OD3 and the MI Audio Blues Pro for overdriven tones if you go for solid-state. If you can find a TS808, even better for that in-between tone.

Oh, yeah, beware of the rubbish on the internet. Some people insist that only valve amps are any good, but they'll also tell you that you need to modify every pedal you buy to improve its sound, etc. Look up "rotren" on youtube. He uses a Valvetronix in lots of his vids and cheap pedals and sounds great.

[bugly]

Originally Posted by Noodler

...
There is a certain high frequency thinness that all solid state amps still have, but if you don't know what I mean, then don't find out! ...

Noodler speaking from my long unused electrical engineering degree that thinness is the absence of even order harmonics to a large extent our ears percieve those harmonics as a pleasent fullness to the sound.

Totally agree with you on the Line 6s the modelling ones I have heard and demoed sound a bit thin against less complex but aurally better amps.

I have had a bottom of the range valvetronix (15W) for a couple of years would make the comment that the valve does help with the breakdown and gives some nice warm OD tones but it suffers in the interface is a pain in the tush - you really need to know enough about each of the modelled amps to understand how to use the controls the use varies from model to model. Sometimes too you can set the gain beyond a point and the modelling goes from OD to a much quieter a less OD tone. The effects are also a bit weak, depending on the Amp selected the amp will go from a nice reverb to an almost auto wah tone with high output pickups. Maybe its because the effects get modelled in different parts of the chain, but I really dont use much except for the delay or reverb on mine.

THe Peavey Spydyr does sound (good) and promising I like the way that Peavey supply you with a clean and dirty channel for each modeled amp, this is more useful to me than to have 22 tonally different amps. The tube simulation is excellent and helps give a nice warmth to the sounds. What is especially nice is that all the amps apart from the 15 watter have the ability to be flashed with new code as problems are discovered and rectified. Havent had a real lot of experience with the Roland but for my money the new Peavey Spydyr have the best sound for the dollar and play well beyond the price range they are in.

[lorispencer]

Originally Posted by Stratrat

I don't know if it's MOSFET or not, but the Roland JC 120 (solid-state) seems to be revered by many as "the King of Cleans".

i have a roland jazz chorus 120 and it is king... but i do love my little fender deluxe 1x12 tube amp as well.

[Stratrat]

Originally Posted by xRIFFxRAFFx

so what about the line 6 amps? or even the mesa boogie ones? this is the hard part trying to pick one thats the most versitile, cause as much as i like one style i dont just play one style lol

I like both the Vox Valvetronix and Roland Cube series. Both have very good modeling and will allow you to play a lot of different styles - and both also have enough fx to mess around with to keep you busy for a while. The Vox AD30VT is a great home practice amp (it has a built-in attenuator, so you can play it basically at a whisper), but it can get loud enough that you could gig it in small venues. A guitarist on another board ditched his Fender Deluxe Reverb for an AD30VT and has been gigging with it for several years, says he loves it.

I'll echo Noodler's sentiments on the Line 6 Spyders - I'm just not a fan of them. The sounds are too "overblown" for me. Mesa Boogies are pretty high-end amps, but they've got more doggone knobs than anything I've ever seen - too much to mess with for me. They're also best known for their 'high gain' tones - so they're great for real hard rock and metal, but not as good for cleaner stuff.

I don't know anything about the Peavey Vypyr, but some people seem to be giving them pretty decent reviews.

[fireblade]

Had a valvetronix for a couple of years now. Great little amp with plenty of presets, manual settings & effects to mess around with. Perhaps on occasion a little too flexible as you can need a pen & paper to remember what settings you've used.