[Skrik]

I have a discussion going at work with a bloke who collects classic guitars. He has an SG, a Les Paul, a 335, various Fenders, and so on. All of these guitars are out of my price range, and besides, I couldn't justify the cost with my (lack of) skills.

I am jealous of his guitars, of course, and tell him he's paying only for the names. He claims his guitars are superior to mine, and are worth every penny he spends on them.

So I have been thinking: a Squier Affinity Telecaster costs around $100. A new Fender Telecaster can cost more than ten times that. The components are cheap enough -- even if you replaced everything that can be changed in the Squier, you'd still come out ahead of the guy with the Fender.

So am I right? Is a Gibson or a Fender buyer paying more for the name than for the guitar?

Exactly what is it about the Fender Telecaster that makes it worth 10 times the Squier?

[P-90]

If there were a single clear answer to your question, things would be much simpler, eh? Guitar companies could eliminate a large number of models, and everyone would get the best possible guitar for their money.

There are significant differences between Fenders and Squier Affinities. Their necks are not the same dimensions anymore, for one (on older Squiers they are). Epiphones are also not identical to Gibsons, as you will discover if you try out a number of each -- a number of Epiphone models are lighter than their Gibson counterparts, for example. So it's not always the case that you're just choosing between an American made guitar and an identical guitar made in Asia. In fact, a great many Epiphones aren't even made by Gibson/Epi, they're made under contract by companies like Samick. It doesn't mean they're worse guitars, but one will find a lot of little differences. Like try to find a jack plate for a Samick-made Epi LP -- they seem to have rounded down when they did imperial to metric conversions or something, the "standard" Gibson jack plate is too big for a Samick-made guitar, and the screw holes are too far apart.

The woods used for the body will also differ, most of the time. The status brands are much more likely to use solid mahagony or ash, for example -- Asian-made guitars are more likely to use something like basswood or agathis. Is one really better than the other? Only your ears can tell you that. And, if they can tell them apart, they still won't tell you whether the difference between korinna and agathis is enough to justify a 20x cost difference. Or whether a light basswood body would be a lot easier on your back than heavy northern ash.

There will also be differences in fit and finish, cheaper guitars may not have as nicely smoothed frets (although you can fix that yourself, if you're ambitious), may use slightly less pretty wood on the front of the guitar, binding may not be as nice, real abalone is likely to be replaced with a blah synthetic.

Quality control is likely to be worse on cheaper guitars, although maybe not by enough to lose sleep over. If your $120 Dean or Epi isn't very good, you can shop for a better one. If your $3000 Gibson isn't very good, ouch.

Anyway, we're not talking about identical guitars, we're talking about very similar looking guitars, which probably sound pretty similar, but there are no guarantees.

One area where there is a clear difference, though, is in hardware. The tuners on a Squier are not usually going to be as good as those on a Fender. Some Epi tuners will be as good as Gibson tuners, but the cheaper Epis will have ones that aren't as good. The pickups, switches, and pots may not be as good on a cheaper guitar. For this reason, a lot of people will buy a cheaper guitar and replace some or all of those parts. This is a very practical approach if you've got an inexpensive guitar that plays well.

Another area with clear difference is in resale value. An Epi is not going to have a Gibson's resale price, even if it plays as well and sounds as good. But, if you plan on keeping the guitar forever, this may not matter to you.

And then there's collecting, as distinct from playing. It's a hobby on its own, and there's no way to evaluate what someone might find enjoyable to collect. Purely a matter of taste, a guitar could be a prized collector's item without even being playable.

And, whatever anyone says, you ARE going to be influenced by seeing the guitar. Maybe you're thinking "this guitar must cost a fortune, it doesn't seem like it's worth the price," or "this is a really bad brand of guitar, it probably stinks," or maybe it's "WOW! A flawless '54 Goldtop Les Paul, this must be the best guitar I've ever touched!" I've heard of people who modified their Epi's headstock and put on Gibson decals, then gotten tons of compliments on what a fantastic guitar they had... which doesn't surprise me much. I'm seriously considering bringing a friend and a blindfold with me next time I shop for a guitar, so that I can play them without knowing what they are. That would probably be the ultimate test.

But nobody can say that a $3000 guitar is or isn't worth it. If you have the $3000, you are the only judge of that.

[D-Dawn]

My son owns a Squire strat and its a great little guitar, but doesn't compare to the playability and tone of my Fender. I purchased a MIM Fender a few weeks ago and it was a huge step up from the Squire, but I still wasn't happy with it. I'm certainly not a name snob at all (my no name classical proves that!! I love it!) but tried the American Fender and this thing blows me away! (so I traded the MIM in on it) Everything about the construction of this guitar is beautiful from the tuners to the finish. Tone is a "whole 'nother show" I was sure that I wouldn't be able to tell a difference, but I do so its worth the extra $$ to me. The body is lighter, the neck faster and it makes me smile because I sound good playing it! lol I'm sure alot of people could make the lesser cost guitars sound just as great with a few tweaks, but I'm not one of them nor do I have the desire to build my own. I don't think it has to be made in America to be a great instrument either. My Yamaha LL-6 acoustic is fantastic quality! X2 on P-90's post!

[Andy S]

P-90 said

I'm seriously considering bringing a friend and a blindfold with me next time I shop for a guitar, so that I can play them without knowing what they are. That would probably be the ultimate test

I may have brought this up before, so sorry if it's a repeat, but a few years ago, I was in Columbus, and met up with a friend who lives there. He was in the market for a new guitar and had been talking about getting a LP but was hesitant to put out that much money for a Gibson.

We hit Sam Ash and did a little "test" that aggravated the daylights out of the sales guy. My friend, Tom, sat on a stool with his eyes closed. I would hand him a guitar, a Les Paul either a Gibson or an Epi. He was plugged it into a POD demo set up. He would then play some stuff on it and hand it back. All the time with his eyes closed.

I went through 3 Epi LPs and 3 Gibson LPs. He favored a Gibson LP standard over all of them. But his second choice was an Epi LP. It was one of the Premium Epis, that has the better grade wood finish and slightly better hardware. But still about $600 cheaper than the Gibsons.

We started with a Gibson, then the Premium Epi, then another Gibson, the third Gibson, then the last two Epis. It drove the sales guys nuts seeing him react favorably to an Epi over the Gibson.

Tom decided to wait a while and we left empty handed. (He wound up buying a new acoustic about three months later.) But that just shows that different guitars are gonna feel and sound different and maybe better than expected, or not as good as expected. Ya gotta go play 'em!!

And as P-90 also said, collecting is one thing, playing is something else entirely!

[P-90]

Originally Posted by Andy S

We hit Sam Ash and did a little "test" that aggravated the daylights out of the sales guy. My friend, Tom, sat on a stool with his eyes closed. I would hand him a guitar, a Les Paul either a Gibson or an Epi. He was plugged it into a POD demo set up. He would then play some stuff on it and hand it back. All the time with his eyes closed.

I went through 3 Epi LPs and 3 Gibson LPs. He favored a Gibson LP standard over all of them. But his second choice was an Epi LP. It was one of the Premium Epis, that has the better grade wood finish and slightly better hardware. But still about $600 cheaper than the Gibsons.

We started with a Gibson, then the Premium Epi, then another Gibson, the third Gibson, then the last two Epis. It drove the sales guys nuts seeing him react favorably to an Epi over the Gibson.

...

But that just shows that different guitars are gonna feel and sound different and maybe better than expected, or not as good as expected. Ya gotta go play 'em!!

Hey, someone actually DID it! Cool...

That's pretty consistent with my own attempts to be a neutral judge. My impression is that the best Gibson is usually going to be better than the best Epi, but that the best Epis may still be better than a lot of Gibsons. You just have to try 'em and see.

[Stratrat]

The question isn't so much "is it better?" - it's more an issue of "is it TEN TIMES better?", to reflect the price differential. That's a question that only the person playing the guitar can answer.

I won't go on record as insulting American-made Fenders (or Gibsons, or any other brand) - they're fine instruments and I'm sure they're well worth the price for some. However, I will go on record as saying that (IMO) there are plenty of guitars manufactured in other countries with different (or same) names on the headstock that are also solid, well-built, good-playing guitars.

It all comes down to what you want/like and what you're willing to pay. I built my own Tele and paid as much or more than an American Standard or Deluxe would have cost me - but I feel that my "Partscaster" blows away any and every other guitar I've ever played by a country mile. That's as it should be, because I personally selected and spec'd every single piece of that guitar exactly to my liking - which is something I wouldn't have gotten from an "off the rack" guitar. Even so, I'd take a major loss if I ever tried to resell it because it doesn't say "Fender" on the headstock - so in that way, the American Fender has the advantage. It's a non-issue to me because I'd never sell my "baby", but for anybody who routinely horse-trades guitars it could be a MAJOR issue.

[P-90]

Originally Posted by Stratrat

I built my own Tele and paid as much or more than an American Standard or Deluxe would have cost me - but I feel that my "Partscaster" blows away any and every other guitar I've ever played by a country mile. That's as it should be, because I personally selected and spec'd every single piece of that guitar exactly to my liking - which is something I wouldn't have gotten from an "off the rack" guitar.

You know what's really funny? My favorite guitar in the world is very much like that. It's still a work in progress, so is only intermittently playable, but it's a 1968 Kingston with 2 DeArmonds (2.6K twang machines) set up as a humbucker at the neck, and 2 Danelectro lipstick pickups as another humbucker at the bridge. With both sets of pickups switchable between single coil and humbucker mode, there are 8 sounds to pick from. It may be a year before I get it into its final state, but I think it'll be worth the wait. And it's a total blast when I get it into a (temporarily) playable state.

Of course, it has virtually no resale value at all.

That's where every "what guitar should I get?" thread breaks down.

You should get the guitar of your dreams, of course! And only you know what your dreams are.

[Stratrat]

Originally Posted by P-90

...That's where every "what guitar should I get?" thread breaks down.

You should get the guitar of your dreams, of course! And only you know what your dreams are.

Man, you couldn't have said it better than that!

Don't worry about resale, don't worry about what name is on the headstock, where it's manufactured or anything else.....get the guitar that YOU absolutely can't live without. As long as it makes you smile, and just MAKES you pick it up and play every time you walk past it because you like it that doggone much, don't worry about what anybody else thinks of it or anything else.....it's "The One."

[fly135]

The nice thing about electric guitars are that they are easily adjustable. If you can find a cheap elec guitar that has a nice fretboard where the strings don't fret out especially on bends then you can generally make it into a good player. I have an Affinity Tele that is a nice instrument. It isn't necessarily about price, but things like the shape of the neck, height of the frets, how the nut filed, bridge parts, and tuners. Quite frankly when I play my Affinity Tele there's nothing holding me back except my skills.

A lot depends on how much time you want to put into your own instrument. You could go buy an expensive American made brand, but even that's no guarantee that your going to get a well adjusted guitar set up to your personal feel. If you are a beginner with limited funds then learning to adjust a cheap guitar and retrofitting can be rewarding and a money saver.

If you are an advanced player who knows what feels right then you're in the best position to go into a guitar shop, choose the right guitar, and get things right before the instrument leaves the store. So paying for a top dollar instrument can be cost effective. It's a tool and you want the best without wasting your time. But as a beginner you'll always have the question, did you get it right or did you just spend a lot of money.

[JF-30]

When I was 18 and met my first wife, she had the third Gibson Humingbird ever made. Her parents had bought it when she was born and gave it to her on her eighteenth birthday. It probably stands as the most awesome guitar I have ever played. The standing joke was that I married her for the guitar and she married me for the stage name. She got the name I never got the guitar. I have the Lyle law suit copy of the Hummingbird now. Mind you it is a duplicate of the Gibson model, even made of all the same materials and does play well. But lacks something in comparison that you can't put your finger on. I play it a lot, but it still doesn't hold a candle to my Chinese made Guild JF-30.
Bob