[lle7]

i guess im looking for an amp that would maximize my new gibson les paul's tone and good enough to play in a band. in other words, im lookin for an quality tone amp to play classic and blues mainly in my room but if i get a chance to play in a band, i could use the same amp. is it true that the high the watts the better the guitar sounds? i was messing around with 30-100 watts amps at the store, i didnt turn them up just enough to hear though and i thought that they sound better with more bass and tone compared to my 15 watt marshall.

i think 30-50 watts is more than enough for my room and jam session.
i would love to have just one great amp and that's all i have to manage.

one more thing. can some one explain the terms in the amplifier world. terms like tube and solid state amps.

[coldethyl]

There's information to be found but this is what I came across in wikepedia.

Hope it helps!

VACUUM TUBE AMPLIFIERS

Vacuum tubes (valves) were by far the dominant active electronic components in most instrument amplifier applications until the 1970s, when semiconductors (transistors) started taking over for performance and economy reasons, including heat and weight reduction, and improved reliability. High-end tube instrument amplifiers have survived as one of few exceptions, because many players like their sounds.

A simple tube amplifier circuit is quite straightforward. Typically, at least two triodes are used in the preamplifier section in order to obtain a signal level high enough to implement any tone controls and drive the following sections. Another two triodes split the phase of the signal and drive the final pentode or beam tetrode (also known as "kinkless tetrodes", hence the KTxx nomenclature) tubes of the push-pull power amplifier stage.

The output tubes are often arranged in a push-pull connection to obtain maximum power. Some high power models use paralleled pairs of output tubes (4 or more in total) in push-pull. Except for the light negative feedback from the secondary end of the output transformer to the driver stage, most amplifying stages work in "raw" open-loop mode, some designs employ current feedback via unbypassed cathode resistors.

Since most tubes show "soft clipping" gain non-linearity, applying an input signal high enough to overdrive any stage tends to produce favorably natural distortion.

Today, most vacuum tube amplifiers are based on the ECC83/12AX7/7025 (dual triode) tubes for the preamplifier and driver sections and the EL84/6BQ5 or EL34/6CA7/KT77 or 6L6/KT66 or 6V6 tubes for the power output section. Some use the KT88/6550 beam power tubes in the output stage. The differing codes for equivalent tubes generally reflect those used by the original European or U.S.A. based manufacturers. These tubes are now mainly manufactured in Russia, China and Eastern European countries. Some amplifiers, such as the Marshall Silver Jubilee, use solid state components in the preamp, most commonly diodes, to create distortion, a design feature known as diode clipping.

Tube instrument amplifiers are often equipped with lower grade transformers and simpler power regulation circuits than those of hi-fi amplifiers. They are usually not only for cost-saving reasons, but also are considered as a factor in sound creation.

For example, a simple power regulation circuit's output tends to sag when there is a heavy load (that is, high output power) and vacuum tubes usually lose gain factors with lower power voltages; this results in somewhat compressed sound volume and it could be criticized as a "poor dynamic range" in case of hi-fi amplifiers, but it can be favorably accepted as "good compression" or "long sustain" of sounds on a guitar amplifier. Some tube guitar amplifiers use a rectifier tube specifically for this reason.

Some models have a "spring reverb" unit that simulates the reverberation of an echoic ambient. A reverb unit usually consists of one or more coil springs driven by the preamplifier section using a transducer driver similar to a loudspeaker at one end and an electro-magnetic pickup and preamplifier stage at the other end that picks up the long sustaining spring vibration, which is then mixed with the original signal.

Some guitar amplifiers have a tremolo control. An internal oscillator generates a low frequency continuous signal that modulates the input signal's amplitude, producing a tremolo effect.

Tube amps have the following disadvantages in comparison to solid-state amps:

They are bulky and heavy, primarily due to the iron in power and output transformers. Solid-state amplifiers still require power transformers, but are usually direct-coupled and don't need output transformers.

Glass tubes are fragile, and require more care and consideration when equipment is moved repeatedly.

Tube performance can deteriorate slightly over time before eventual catastrophic failure. When tube vacuum is maintained at a high level, though, excellent performance and life is possible.

They are prone to pick up mechanical noises (microphonic noise), although such electro-mechanical feedback from the loudspeaker to the tubes in combo amplifiers may contribute to sound creation.

They require a warm-up period (up to a few minutes) to allow tube cathodes to operate without damage and so prolong tube life. This is of particular importance for amplifiers with solid state rectifiers.
Tube amps have the following advantages over solid-state amps:

Compared to semiconductors, tubes have a very low "drift" (of specs) over a wide range of operating conditions, specifically high heat/high power. Semiconductors are very heat-sensitive by comparison and this fact usually leads to compromises in solid-state amplifier designs.

When a tube fails, it is replaceable. While solid state devices are also replaceable, it's usually a much more involved process (i.e., having the amplifier tested by a professional, removing the faulty component, and replacing it).

For working musicians this is usually a huge problem by comparison to looking in the back of a tube amp at the tubes and simply replacing the faulty tube. In addition, tubes can easily be removed and tested, while transistors cannot.

A tube's amplification tends to be more linear than an equivalent solid state device [citation needed], resulting in a more predictable [citation needed]response to transients (abrupt changes in audio level). This is especially the case when signal levels approach the point of clipping. In a tube-powered amplifier, the transition from linearity to non-linearity is less abrupt than in a solid state unit, resulting in a less grating form of distortion at the onset of clipping.

For this reason, many professional guitarists prefer the sound of an all-tube amplifier.

Solid-state amplifiers

Most low-end guitar amplifiers currently produced are based on semiconductor (solid state) circuits, and some designs incorporate tubes in the preamp stage for their subjectively warmer overdrive sound.

Tubes create warm overdrive sounds because instead of cutting the peaked signal off, they more or less pull the peaked audio information back (like natural compression) which creates a fuzzy overdrive sound.

While this is a desirable attribute in many cases, the tube's characteristic will "color" all the sounds at any volume, unlike solid state. However, solid state in general have the quickest response time, perhaps even more so than modeling amps.

High-end solid state amplifiers are less common, since many professional guitarists tend to favor vacuum tubes. Some jazz guitarists, however, tend to favor the "colder" sound of solid-state amplifiers, preferring not to color the sound of their guitar with the tube distortion and compression so popular with rock, blues, and metal musicians.

Solid-state amplifiers vary in output power, functionality, size, price, and sound quality in a wide range, from practice amplifiers to professional models. Some purist or inexpensive amplifiers have only volume and tone controls.

[Stratrat]

Originally Posted by lle7

is it true that the high the watts the better the guitar sounds?

Not necessarily. That 100-watt solid-state Marshall you're considering will sound like absolute dirt compared to a lot of 15-30 watt tube amps.

Originally Posted by lle7

i was messing around with 30-100 watts amps at the store, i didnt turn them up just enough to hear though and i thought that they sound better with more bass and tone compared to my 15 watt marshall.

Your 15-watt Marshall is an inexpensive, beginner-level solid-state practice amp. I have a 15-watt solid-state Peavey stuffed away in the closet somewhere that was pretty much the same thing - I couldn't get a good sound out of that thing to save my life. Even my 2-watt Roland Micro Cube blows it out of the water in every way. It would almost be hard for you to find an amp that didn't sound better and have more tone than your little Marshall.

Also keep in mind that what you hear in a music store with the amp volume set at '1' will likely not sound the same as playing/jamming with that amp cranked up to 6 or 7 - especially a tube amp. Many amps will sound a little "thin" at bedroom volume, but fill out nicely once you turn them up and get the power tubes cooking.

Originally Posted by lle7

i think 30-50 watts is more than enough for my room and jam session.

I think "more than enough" is right. I don't gig (lucky for the world at this point!), but I do jam with a drummer friend of mine once in a while. We play in a very small room with his very large drum kit, and I have no problem being heard through either of my amps, which are 15 watts (Blues Jr.) and 22 watts (Deluxe Reverb). Neither of them even have to be turned all the way up - I run the Blues Jr. at about 6 or 7 on the volume knob, and the Deluxe Reverb at around 5, and can easily be heard over his drums.

[eXperiment63]

You only need a 15watter(tube) to be heard over a drummer while getting in the sweet spot of the amp.

If you are going for straight classic rock style, the peavey classic 30 will be plenty for you, and it's an awesome vintage-voiced amp.

If you want heavier tones, the peavey valveking 112 would be a good choice, as that is modern-voiced, but can still play those beautiful bluesy rock sounds.

[krissovo]

I went to a gig at the weekend and nearly laughed when one of the guitarists was setting up a Roland Micro Cube, he mic'ed it up and he sounded awsome, they had the place rocking. The band that came on afterwoods the guitarist had a big 60w (Fender Vibro king) valve amp. Only problem though he could not get the amp up to the sweet spot as he would have blown our ears off. You could tell he was frustrated and as a result his playing let the band down. You can buy attenuators that drive the amps at lower volumes, this would be a must at home.

I agree fully with the statement ubove about a 15w tube amp will clear a drummer. I have a 15w blues junior and that has room for more, incidently i am going to gig with the blues junior and a zoom floor pedal. I will mic it with the PA as well but I have a setup that works at home and for playing live. Even at 15w my blues junior get complaints from next door a 30w amp would just about blow your windows out and a 50w amp would leave a trail of devastation in the locality, (see attenuators).

For solid state my Vox ad30 and my roland cube 30 both clear a drummer and they both mic up well. Both can be plugged directly into a PA system and you use them like a guitar pedal. The vox has a attenuator built in that is a great feature for playing at home to a suitable volume.

Good luck

[fly135]

I don't think you can lose with a 15watt EL84 amp like the Blues Jr Krissovo mentioned. If I was going to buy new I would consider a 15 or 30 watt tube combo. I was playing the tele last night straight into my 15 watt Laney LC15 and was really feeling the love. The tone was awesome with no pedals. For blues and classic rock it's great.

[krissovo]

Just another point about the 15w blues junior, I often plug it into a stack cab and its sounds sweet

[Stratrat]

Even though I like the Blues Jr., everytime I plug into the Deluxe Reverb it makes me think "this must be what it sounds like when angels sing!"

Kriss - not to hijack the thread, but which do you like better between your AD30VT and the Cube 30? I seem to be eyeballing the Vox lately....

[krissovo]

Originally Posted by Stratrat

Kriss - not to hijack the thread, but which do you like better between your AD30VT and the Cube 30? I seem to be eyeballing the Vox lately....

The Vox is getting more airtime, I have found two settings that I have saved. A bright clean and a great blues crunch that is adictive. I rarely use the rest of the amps capabilities. I use the cube whenever I need a quick tone, I find it is simple and very quick to dial in something decent sounding.

Oh and I also know what you are talking about with the delux reverb

[allthumbs]

You can also buy 8 to12 watt boutique amps that just howl with creamy goodness. I would probably go that way if I had a spare 300 to 600 bucks.

[solidwalnut]

Originally Posted by lle7

i guess im looking for an amp that would maximize my new gibson les paul's tone and good enough to play in a band. in other words, im lookin for an quality tone amp to play classic and blues mainly in my room but if i get a chance to play in a band, i could use the same amp.

You have some great choices below. And I say if you've got a Les, don't settle for some cheap amp. They've got tone to the hills.

Originally Posted by lle7

is it true that the high the watts the better the guitar sounds? i was messing around with 30-100 watts amps at the store, i didnt turn them up just enough to hear though and i thought that they sound better with more bass and tone compared to my 15 watt marshall.

i think 30-50 watts is more than enough for my room and jam session.
i would love to have just one great amp and that's all i have to manage.

It's been said below, but I just want to reinforce that you don't need a 100W tube amp. Just to give you an idea, electronically, what it all means: It would take a 10-fold difference in power for you to perceive the volume difference. As has also been said by X and krissovo, consider that you really want to run the tube amp at it's sweet spot, volume level at least up to 5.

I play in a band and have a Trace Elliot SpeedTwin 50W tube amp, and that is plenty, plenty.

There's a ton of great amps out there. Just go audition some of them. Come back and ask about particular ones that you might like.

Originally Posted by lle7

one more thing. can some one explain the terms in the amplifier world. terms like tube and solid state amps.

Just a little more info for the pile:

There are some great solid state amps out there. Just know that they have more a of a sterile and cold sound as opposed to a tube amp. What happens is when a transistor is saturated, meaning it can't handle any more audio signal, it breaks up the sound hard. Think of the picture of breaking a green tree limb. These are the types of spikes introduced into the sound, hence the type of distortion you'll hear.

When a tube is saturated, the audio begins to break up but rather than uncontrolled spiking of the audio what happens is that it has a 'soft ceiling' (and as was said above in Neil's original response) because it's 'pulled back' giving it more of a compressed sound. The break up of the audio is said to be more gracious and smooth sounding.

The combination of a good tube amp and great fingers makes for excellent tone.

Steve

[Noodler]

The difficulty I find in testing amps in a music shop. Say if I wanted to try a Fender Deluxe just to see if it was in the ballpark or just too darn loud, I doubt they are going to warm the tubes up for me and let me open her up! The other thing is that guitar store guitars all have new strings, so I spend more time tuning than listening to the amp as it will play. Note to self: take own guitar next time.

It seems to me looking that you've got a choice in valve "classics" between sweet cleans (Fender) and warm rock OD/distortion (Marshall), but the Marshall clean channel is very plain to my ears. I think I will go with Fender, because you can whack a distortion pedal on a clean amp, but I think it'd be harder to get a sweet clean out of a Marshall. Any opinions on that?

[Stratrat]

Originally Posted by Noodler

...I think I will go with Fender, because you can whack a distortion pedal on a clean amp, but I think it'd be harder to get a sweet clean out of a Marshall. Any opinions on that?

If you think that you'll ever at any point want those nice, jangly, "sparkly" cleans, go with Fender. You're right - you can dirty a clean amp, but you can't clean a dirty amp. Some people like the Marshall cleans, but they're definitely a different "clean" than the Fender. There are plenty of OD/distortion pedals that will give you a nice dirty sound from a Fender when you want it.

[krissovo]

Just to throw a serve ball if money is not an issue Orange amps make some impressive Tube amps, a bit more expensive than fender or marshall. From the 5w tiny terror up they have nice cleans, not as bright as a fender but probably more suited to the single coil pup than the humbuckers in a LP.

[Noodler]

I'll definitely be wanting jangly and sparkly cleans, so Fender shall be it. I'm even leaning that way over Vox. I get confused though about Princeton. On videos on youtube in the US you'll see things like Princeton Recording amps and all the Princetons seem to be valve amps according to the videos. The samples will have nice sparkly cleans, and "ballsy" grunt through the OD channel. Perfect. eg:

YouTube - Fender Princeton Recording Amp Demo

In Australia though, Princetons all seem to go for only $500, so there is no way they are a valve amp (usually over A$1000 minimum).

Has anyone tried a Hughes and Kettner or Bad Cat amp?

Krissovo, Adrian from Orange amps. Best sales rep ever!!!

YouTube - Orange Tiny Terror - Musikmesse 2007 - Gearwire.com