[hb]

You'll see that I'm fairly new to electric guitars, when I ask, "what does it mean when you "overdrive" an amp?
thanks,
hb

[P-90]

Overdriving an amp is providing it with a loud enough signal that some parts of the amp's circuitry can do longer contain the entire wave. For example, let's say you have a power supply for your amp which lets the wave swing back and forth between +30 volts and -30 volts. Now let's say that you give it a strong enough signal that it will be trying to amplify it to +/- 35 volts. It can't do it, because you just can't make 35 volts when 30 is all you have to work with, so what ends up happening is that the top and bottom of the wave will get chopped off. This squaring or clipping of the wave's shape is itself distortion, but it also produces other types of distortion as a side effect.

An overdrive pedal can drive your amp into clipping. Different pedals have different sonic signatures, but how the amp will respond to being overdriven is an even bigger variable. Tube amps tend to sound great when overdriven, solid state amps try to copy the sound of tubes, but transistors just don't respond the same as tubes do. So you'll never hear anyone raving about the naturally great sound of clipping in a solid state device -- it naturally sounds pretty ugly. Solid state designers have gone to great lengths to try to make their amps sound like a tube amp when it clips, but some have been a lot more successful than others. So don't assume that if you hear a sound sample with someone using an overdrive on a vintage Vox, that getting that pedal will make your amp sound exactly like that; it won't (unless you also use a vintage Vox). Maybe close, depending on your amp, but not identical.

In the old days, there were just preamps and fuzz pedals to do that kind of thing; most of what are sold as overdrive or distortion pedals now are somewhere in between the two... signal boost plus some degree of sonic shaping.

[hb]

OK......thanks for the answer....a little over my head in some aspects, but I think I've got the jest of it now. Asking you amp to do more than it was built to be to get a specific sound, am I correct????
hb

[P-90]

Yeah, that's correct... as for what that sound is, you could listen to some ancient Jeff Beck to get an example of pure (but very extreme) overdrive -- he used to daisy-chain amps together to get that sound, which is way more than a pedal would do. (Also a great way to blow tubes, which he used to do regularly, so not a recommended technique unless you have money to burn.)

From a pedal it's more likely to sound like this: http://www.danelectro.com/media/FabODMP3.mp3

[starsailor]

As we're on this subject could we do an update on Amps, what Amps do Members recommend and what Amps are the best ones to start off with when you're new to Electric Guitar? or if you are on a limited budget.

Cheers

Chris

[Noodler]

For someone new to electric guitar, the Fender G-Dec 15 would be a great go-er. It has lots of amp models that it can copy the sounds of (basically), and lots of inbuilt effects. So you can try different effects without having to go out and buy a pedal board or a lot of floor pedals. It includes 10 reverbs, delay, chorus, wah (auto and fixed), phaser, distortion and overdrive. So there's lots to experiment with. It also has backing tracks, so you can jam away by yourself! This is my current amp.

.:: Fender®.com ::.

But mentioning overdrive and solid state amps, the Vox Pathfinder 15R comes very, very close. It has a warmth in it's tone, such that when I played through it I actually asked, "Is this a valve amp?." It's not, and it costs about $230 Australian with reverb. I want one so badly!

[Noodler]

P90, I have an Australian-made old Jade I bought in High School, that talked about clipping like you mentioned. Does that mean that I'd need to turn it up loud to get a nice overdrive (it's about 60W, so that's loud ).

Also, if overdrive pedals increase your signal to oversdrive the amp, can that hurt a SS amp?

[krissovo]

Originally Posted by starsailor

As we're on this subject could we do an update on Amps, what Amps do Members recommend and what Amps are the best ones to start off with when you're new to Electric Guitar? or if you are on a limited budget.

Cheers

Chris

Two amps always get great reviews and this site:
Vox AD valvetronix series
Roland Cube series

I have both and there is not much between them but my plus points for each are:

Roland Cube - Easy to get a great tone without spending hours trying to dial one in, has a recording out feature so its great for hooking up to a PC or Mixer/PA system

Vox Valvetronix - Output is variable from 1w to 15/30/50/100 dependant on the model you have so you can drive the tube (not true tube amp), it also has great tone (harder to dial in than the roland)

[Noodler]

Originally Posted by krissovo

Two amps always get great reviews and this site:
Vox AD valvetronix series
Roland Cube series

I have both and there is not much between them but my plus points for each are:

Roland Cube - Easy to get a great tone without spending hours trying to dial one in, has a recording out feature so its great for hooking up to a PC or Mixer/PA system

Vox Valvetronix - Output is variable from 1w to 15/30/50/100 dependant on the model you have so you can drive the tube (not true tube amp), it also has great tone (harder to dial in than the roland)

So you like the Valvetronix over the Pathfinder? I thought the inclusion of just one valve (and it's in the pre-amp too I think) was a bit of a gimmick just so they could say it was a tube amp. Although this guy (link below) sells it well, he could just be a good player:

Vox Valvetronix AD30VT | Gearwire

[krissovo]

The valvetronix is no way near a tube amp but you can get great tone from it. I have never tried the pathfinder but the Valvetronix is a modeling amp so it is based on 11 (i think) types of amp. My only issue with it is finding the great tone is a bit hit and miss but there is some great websites with patches for the amp. With the vox you can save two channels (great idea) and this is foot switchable so I have a nice creamy clean and a slightly dirty crunch tone at the press of a button.

[Noodler]

That's the thing, the GDEC has all the modelling stuff, effects, plus tuner, CD in, ipod in, 2nd guitar in, MIDI updates and patches, plus backing tracks as well as a phrase sampler. Tons more features than the Valvetronics in other words. Oh and a metronome, changeable keys, it just keeps giving! The 30W has a footswitch available, too.

Would you/ have you gigged with the Valvetronix? In other words, is it a more "serious" amp than a practice amp?

The Pathfinder just has great core tones. Classic vox, nice cleans (not sparkly like a Fender), but the overdrive is fantastic. When I've used it I'm always happy with the tone. What it lacks in features it makes up for in quality tone (and classic retro looks!). I wish the Valvetronix came with the old-skool face.

Ever tried an AC30 (not cheap)?

[krissovo]

Originally Posted by Noodler

That's the thing, the GDEC has all the modelling stuff, effects, plus tuner, CD in, ipod in, 2nd guitar in, MIDI updates and patches, plus backing tracks as well as a phrase sampler. Tons more features than the Valvetronics in other words. Oh and a metronome, changeable keys, it just keeps giving! The 30W has a footswitch available, too.

Would you/ have you gigged with the Valvetronix? In other words, is it a more "serious" amp than a practice amp?

The Pathfinder just has great core tones. Classic vox, nice cleans (not sparkly like a Fender), but the overdrive is fantastic. When I've used it I'm always happy with the tone. What it lacks in features it makes up for in quality tone (and classic retro looks!). I wish the Valvetronix came with the old-skool face.

Ever tried an AC30 (not cheap)?

GDEC is a toy, Fender should stick to clean amps I would think its great for noobie but you will soon be looking for a new amp once the novelty wears off.

You can easily gig with the valvetronix especially the 50/100W, I jam with a 5 piece band with the 30w and it clears the drums.

AC30 is a joy to play, the Valvetronix has a fairly good model for the price you pay of the AC30.

[Noodler]

Yes, GDEC has a toy factor . But it is intended for home use/ practice, not gigging (I wouldn't buy a 30W). But even further on it is useful. It has taught me about old Fender amp types (there is a GDEC owner's forum!). But say if I was learning a new jazz chord progression and wanted to improvise over it, I can record myself playing the rhythm part and solo over it until my heart's content. It's like having a rhythm guitarist on-call! I love that.

The only other way I know to do that is to find the same chord progression in a song (and what if it's something you are writing?). Or, there is the Loop Station by Boss for $400, nearly the price of the GDEC. If you know a cheaper way, let me know though!

For a real toy, Marshall has a mini-mini half stack (about $100). It is 1 or 2W. I had one once, but it got stolen.

[fly135]

You'll see that I'm fairly new to electric guitars, when I ask, "what does it mean when you "overdrive" an amp?

It should be noted that overdriving an amp and an overdrive pedal are two different things. Overdrive pedals are distortion pedals. Any pedal that has amplification (aka volume or level boost) can overdrive an amp. For example a Fish & Chips EQ pedal has amplification and can be used to overdrive the amp. OD pedals typically have amplification and a mild distortion effect. So you can use an OD pedal to get crunch in front of a SS amp without actually overdriving the amp.

[krissovo]

Originally Posted by Noodler

The only other way I know to do that is to find the same chord progression in a song (and what if it's something you are writing?). Or, there is the Loop Station by Boss for $400, nearly the price of the GDEC. If you know a cheaper way, let me know though!

Fair points - I think you are trying to say its great value! My opinion is that all those features are fairly limited, the loop is limited, the drums are quite week etc

As for a budget looper, if you have a spare minumum spec PC and a free weekend then you could concider using Linux. I have just taken the plunge and its now a pleasure to use as a music studio. I use an app called sooperlooper and its that good I am going to sell my boss RC 20.

This thread should give you some background Setting up Free Open Source Studio on Linux