[apollo]

Being kinda new at evaluating what and what not to buy, I was wondering why is it that Tube amps sound so much better than solid state ones? Is it that tubes deal with higher voltages and currents? I've never heard one (tube type) and would appreciate any advice or info. Thanx alot

[solidwalnut]

Originally Posted by apollo

Being kinda new at evaluating what and what not to buy, I was wondering why is it that Tube amps sound so much better than solid state ones? Is it that tubes deal with higher voltages and currents? I've never heard one (tube type) and would appreciate any advice or info. Thanx alot

Without getting too technical, it's because a tube can do what a transistor can never do.

A transistor (in this case) is used as an amplifier. A tube (in this case) is used as an amplifier; the tale of two worlds.

A signal passes through an transistor and is wired to amplify the signal coming in to it. When the signal current is larger than what the transistor can handle, the signal saturates the transistor, and the transistor begins to break up the signal. Distortion. The way a transistor handles distortion is that the signal clips off. The noise generated by the clipping is fed back into the transistor to be amplified; a very nasty sharp signal. The resulting amplification is harsh sounding.

Compare that to a signal passing through a tube used as an amplifier. A tube is the same basic electronics as a transistor (well, made up of different stuff, but it is essentially the same circuit). When the signal current exceeds the tube's capacity, the break up of the signal is very gracious; very smooth. So the resulting distortion that is fed back into the tube to be amplified is also smooth sounding.

In a nutshell. Tubes rule the world of tone. Tubes are much more efficient with feeding back and amplifiying and passing along the entire signal.

The entire Class A vs Class AB is an entirely different discussion! Just know that you can't go wrong with getting a tube amp vs. getting a solid state one.

Steve

[Tekker]

Originally Posted by solidwalnut

The entire Class A vs Class AB is an entirely different discussion!

Yeah, both tubes and transistors can be run in class A or AB configuration.

The guitar signal is an AC (alternating current) signal that has both positive and negative voltages. The Class A and Class AB just have a different way of dealing with both parts of the signal.

Class AB will use two tubes (or transistors) to handle the signal, one tube will handle the positive signal and one will handle the negative. These are used in power amp configurations because they can amplify the signal a lot more.

Class A however uses one tube (or transistor) to handle both the positive and negative parts of the signal. These are generally used in preamp configurations because a lot of amplification is not needed at this stage, plus it's cheaper to use only one component instead of two (plus some other components are needed to make Class AB function properly).

So generally Class A is used in preamps and Class AB is used in power amplifiers.

You may see people talking about "class A" to describe a preamp as if this is some kine of holy grail or something. "If it's class A it MUST be good". Well, no, this has nothing to do with sound. There are good class A preamps and bad ones. LOL

But "class A" does sound impressive, doesn't it?

-tkr

[justinthyme]

Not wishing to hijack the thread - but Steve and Tekker - is there any way with modern tube amps that you can get decent distortion at low volumes? Important for us apartment-dwellers

[solidwalnut]

Originally Posted by justinthyme

Not wishing to hijack the thread - but Steve and Tekker - is there any way with modern tube amps that you can get decent distortion at low volumes? Important for us apartment-dwellers

Ian, check out this. There are a lot of similar devices on the market. The idea is that this device acts as a load for your tube amp so you can crank the amp but then control the actual volume output.

Steve

[justinthyme]

Originally Posted by solidwalnut

Ian, check out this. There are a lot of similar devices on the market. The idea is that this device acts as a load for your tube amp so you can crank the amp but then control the actual volume output.

Steve

OK, great - so there's hope yet! Presumably the power of the amp then doesn't need to be limited to say 5 watts or whatever?

[Stratrat]

Justinthyme - if the attenuator is out of your price range you could also use a 'stomp box' such as a Digitech Bad Monkey, TS-808, Boss OD-3, Danelectro Fab Distortion, etc......thousands of them on the market. You can keep your tube amp at low volume and dial in how much "dirt" you want via the stomp box. I can comfortably play either my Blues Jr. (15 watts) or Deluxe Reverb (22 watts) at bedroom volumes that way.

Apollo - I wouldn't say that tube amps always sound better than solid-state amps. There are good and bad examples of both.

[justinthyme]

Originally Posted by Stratrat

Justinthyme - if the attenuator is out of your price range you could also use a 'stomp box' such as a Digitech Bad Monkey, TS-808, Boss OD-3, Danelectro Fab Distortion, etc......thousands of them on the market. You can keep your tube amp at low volume and dial in how much "dirt" you want via the stomp box. I can comfortably play either my Blues Jr. (15 watts) or Deluxe Reverb (22 watts) at bedroom volumes that way.

I have a POD XT which runs into a Behringer Xenyx 1222FX mixer and out to a pair of Tapco monitors. So far I've been totally unable to get anything approaching the 'creamy' tones I hear others playing with here all the time. The sound is always thin ... clean thin-sounding or dirty thin-sounding. Rolling the treble off doesn't improve things.

I don't think its the guitar - its a PRS Santana recently set up by the same luthier who made Kirk's Palm acoustic ... and he reported being able to get fantastic tone from her.

This is why I thought I'd look at a valve amp as an alternative. Budget isn't a huge consideration - not throwing more money away is!

[Tekker]

Originally Posted by justinthyme

I have a POD XT which runs into a Behringer Xenyx 1222FX mixer and out to a pair of Tapco monitors.

Just as a test, try bypassing the Behringer mixer and going from the POD to the monitors. Are they powered monitors? If so, then go from the left out on the POD directly into the Left speaker and the right channel directly into the right speaker.

Without being there it's hard to tell if it's a setting issue or something in the chain (like the Behringer). But the POD should be able to give some good tones.

-tkr

[justinthyme]

Hey Tekker ... even running the guitar directly into the POD XT and then listening with headphones or recording through Audacity via USB just doesn't sound good. I've downloaded loads of patches from Line6 and used Gearbox rather than the POD itself - still never sounds 'fat' or 'creamy'.

[solidwalnut]

Originally Posted by Stratrat

Apollo - I wouldn't say that tube amps always sound better than solid-state amps. There are good and bad examples of both.

Yeah, I've got a Lab Series L11 200W head that I played through for years, solid state. It's got built in compression so I'd just stomp on the output a bit and send it into some 'verb and presto, decent tone! But I gotta say that even then ss is no tone match for most tube amps.

[solidwalnut]

Originally Posted by justinthyme

I have a POD XT which runs into a Behringer Xenyx 1222FX mixer and out to a pair of Tapco monitors. So far I've been totally unable to get anything approaching the 'creamy' tones I hear others playing with here all the time. The sound is always thin ... clean thin-sounding or dirty thin-sounding. Rolling the treble off doesn't improve things.

I don't think its the guitar - its a PRS Santana recently set up by the same luthier who made Kirk's Palm acoustic ... and he reported being able to get fantastic tone from her.

This is why I thought I'd look at a valve amp as an alternative. Budget isn't a huge consideration - not throwing more money away is!

Ian, I know I've already piped in on this before with you, but I gotta say again, you NEED a tube amp to glorify the great tones from a PRS!!! There's plenty of good tube amps out there, but if you can get your hands on a Mesa Boogie, you'll have some Carlos tone going on.

Steve

[apollo]

Originally Posted by solidwalnut

Without getting too technical, it's because a tube can do what a transistor can never do.

A transistor (in this case) is used as an amplifier. A tube (in this case) is used as an amplifier; the tale of two worlds.

A signal passes through an transistor and is wired to amplify the signal coming in to it. When the signal current is larger than what the transistor can handle, the signal saturates the transistor, and the transistor begins to break up the signal. Distortion. The way a transistor handles distortion is that the signal clips off. The noise generated by the clipping is fed back into the transistor to be amplified; a very nasty sharp signal. The resulting amplification is harsh sounding.

Compare that to a signal passing through a tube used as an amplifier. A tube is the same basic electronics as a transistor (well, made up of different stuff, but it is essentially the same circuit). When the signal current exceeds the tube's capacity, the break up of the signal is very gracious; very smooth. So the resulting distortion that is fed back into the tube to be amplified is also smooth sounding.

In a nutshell. Tubes rule the world of tone. Tubes are much more efficient with feeding back and amplifiying and passing along the entire signal.

The entire Class A vs Class AB is an entirely different discussion! Just know that you can't go wrong with getting a tube amp vs. getting a solid state one.

Steve

Thanks alot for the info solidwalnut. I have a solid state 30watt Drive brand amp and am looking to upgrade someday soon. I dropped a '57 classic and a '57 classic plus in one of my Aria electrics, and was disappointed by the result. I had to believe it was the amps shortcomings. I have a Zoom G2.1 effects box and that helps some with the sound. But still too tinny and not the smooth, fat tone I'm looking for. I'll start saving for a better amp, maybe a nice christmas present for myself, lol. Wanting to play classic rock/country/blues, are certain tube amps better than others at certain types of music? Thanks again for all the advice and info solidwalnut.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Tekker

Yeah, both tubes and transistors can be run in class A or AB configuration.

Class AB will use two tubes (or transistors) to handle the signal, one tube will handle the positive signal and one will handle the negative. These are used in power amp configurations because they can amplify the signal a lot more.

Class A however uses one tube (or transistor) to handle both the positive and negative parts of the signal. These are generally used in preamp configurations because a lot of amplification is not needed at this stage, plus it's cheaper to use only one component instead of two (plus some other components are needed to make Class AB function properly).


-tkr

Just to add a bit more, the nice thing about the class A compared to AB is that there is no distortion when the signal goes from positive to negative. With class AB (a lot more efficient from a power point of view as Tekker said) there will always be some distortion of the signal as it transitions from the positive circuit to the negative circuit.
As for the comparison between solid state and tubes, I'm less convinced than SolidWalnut. I suppose if you are out looking for distortion as lots of electric guitar players are, then tubes have a nice way of dealing with distortion as he said. But if you are looking for audio fidelity, then high gain, high quality differential amplifiers using solid state circuitry are pretty darn good.

[SlickCat]

Speakers play a big role in FAT tone. Some are very bright like a JBL ,others fat like Celestion Greenback or tone tubby.
If your Pod XT has cabinet/speaker modelling pick 4x12 greenbacks. Lower your treble...increase your mids and bass.
Use the plexi model...that may help.