[ozboomer]

'lo all...

I've been struggling forever (it seems like!) to get my Squier Affinity Strat to stay in-tune on more-or-less one string.

I've had the guitar set-up a couple of times and it's like the people in the shop can't fix it; I've tried altering the intonation myself and I can't get it fixed either.

Referring to the attached image, if I play (5th string/3rd fret) and compare it to (3rd string/5th fret), they sound Ok with minimal beating. If I move the 'shape' up the fretboard, it holds the tune/relationship Ok.

However, if I play (5th string/3rd fret) against (2nd string/1st fret), the (5th string/3rd fret) note sounds sharp.

What happens is that anything I play "around" C Major sounds Ok... but an A Minor chord sounds awful.

So, I'm trying to work out where next to look, given that I've tried things like changing the strings, re-doing the intonation, etc. Maybe it's the nut groove... or the saddle stability?

Fanx!

[krissovo]

Sounds like a dud if it has been in and out of the shop and still giving trouble.

I would look at a fret dress, new nut, new tuners, check action if you really wanted to save the guitar.

[scotty_b]

Possibly an inconsistency with the neck?
A luthier may be able to help - more so than the guys at a shop.

[fly135]

Have you checked both the 5th string/3rd fret and the 2nd/1st against a tuner to see which one is out? That would be the first thing I'd do. I.E. find out which string is out of tune.

[Live Stone]

Before I had my american deluxe tele I had a squier affinity. Actually for the price I was well satisfied. Passed it on to my grandson. So many factors can play into your problem. If you like the guitar the advice to take it to a luthier as recommened before by ScottyB is sound. Get a price estimate and make them fix it right. You may want to consider that it may be cheaper in the long run to either buy another affinity and check it carefully or take the money and possible upgrade to a Mexican tele. I have a friend with one and it is far superior to the affinity. Of course it depends on your finances. In my opinion the American tele was my dream guitar and It comes from the factory almost perfect for me. I really love my B bender Amer. tele deluxe. Has a third tex mex pickup in the middle and gives it a sort of crossover with the stratocastor which I also love. Many times guitar shops don't have the expertise to solve your problem unless they have a skilled luthier at their disposal. At any rate I hope you can solve your problem with minimal expense, as I know how frustrating your problem can be.

Best of luck
Danny

[allthumbs]

You always take a chance buying low end guitars. You can get a good one or a lemon. You should be able to fix the problem by changing the intonation for that string and or adjusting the string height if it is higher than the others. Good luck.

[ozboomer]

An interesting observation/side-issue...

I grabbed one of the software strobe tuners for Windows (XP) and tried it out with the guitar... This is in addition to the BOSS TU-12 and the tuner in the V-Amp 2 I'm using.

It seems that the best I can get in terms of stablity with the tuning across all the strings was within +/- 5-10 cents or so, no matter which tuner I used.

Now, the couple of observations:

1) When using the software strobe tuner, I find the frequency it reports is often an octave out, that is it's selecting/displaying the 2nd harmonic frequency value instead of the fundamental. This happens no matter how hard I play the string nor what combination of pickups I use.

Using a software spectrum analyser, I also notice the fundamental is not necessarily the highest output frequency... but I guess this might be part of the character of the Stratocaster design anyway, and is what we want, after all

2) Whether I play the instrument after tuning or if I just let it sit, the 3rd/4th (G/D) strings often go out of tune. Problems with tuners on the headstock?

3) If I play an open string and get the frequency 'correct' within +/- 5-10 cents, if I play the string on the 1st fret, the correct note is displayed on all the tuners... except that it's up to +/- 20 cents out. As I play notes further up the neck, the discrepancy reduces. However, if I play the harmonics at 5th fret/7th fret+2 strings/12th fret, they are all Ok within +/- 5-10 cents. This happens on all the strings. Does this point to the frets not being set-out quite right?

Since I've been looking at this in detail the last couple of days, it seems there's a few funnies with the instrument(!).

[fly135]

First, are these new strings. Because my observation is that they go out of tune until they get stretched. Second, check the nut holding your tuners. Are they loose. All the ones I check usually are. A 10mm wrench should fit. Third, how are your strings wound on the tuner? Other than the tail when it comes out of the tuner, the strings should be wound down the post and not overlapping.

The second issue of the fretted string being out of tune sounds like the height of the string at the nut. If the string is too high, then pressing it to the fret will raise the pitch. Jumbo frets and high pressure on the string will exaggerate the problem. The fact that the fretted strings get better as you go up the neck backs this up. You say the first fretted string goes out +/- 20 cents. Plus sounds right but minus doesn't. The pitch should only be too high.

[ozboomer]

Oooo, many good things there to check...

Strings are old-ish. I probably practice for an hour or so every day and have done so since the last string change (Mar 07), so I was thinking the strings could stand a change... and probably another attempt at a set-up on the guitar?

Will check tuners, etc over the weekend...

Fanx! for the suggestions

[Stratrat]

Something that Fly135 touched on that's worth trying again - make sure you're not really clamping down when you're fretting those notes at the first fret. The fact that the harmonics sound OK and the notes higher on the neck sound OK make that something at least worth considering. It's pretty easy to "squeeze a note sharp" if you're fretting too hard.....try it and see. Fret a note on one of the first two or three frets, then squeeze down on it hard and listen to it go sharp!

I'm not saying it's definitely the problem with your intonation - but I always like to start with the easiest things first before tearing things apart and spending money!

[ozboomer]

Originally Posted by fly135

First, are these new strings. Because my observation is that they go out of tune until they get stretched.

As I mentioned, these are old-ish strings; but they are probably relatively stable, stretch-wise. I think I should probably change them, though, purely from the 160+ hours of use...?

Second, check the nut holding your tuners. Are they loose. All the ones I check usually are. A 10mm wrench should fit.

Uh-huh, they were somewhat loose... but I have no tension wrench and they seem to be capable of a bit more tightening yet - but I'm paranoid about over-tightening nuts. Still, I'll keep this in mind.

Third, how are your strings wound on the tuner? Other than the tail when it comes out of the tuner, the strings should be wound down the post and not overlapping.

Well, see the attached photo.

I've just noticed the 5th string isn't 'anchored' too well. Maybe there's some slipping going on here...

The second issue of the fretted string being out of tune sounds like the height of the string at the nut. If the string is too high, then pressing it to the fret will raise the pitch.

Now, this is interesting. I tried playing on a second (granted, cheapo) guitar - Squier Bullet Strat with tremolo bridge - and I get the same problems. I tried experimenting with this... and found that if I played an individual note on almost any string, down in the first 5 frets, I could see on the strobo tuner that the pitch went up that 10 cents or more. So it seems the problem might be as simple as my playing technique. Playing some chords is problematic for me and I can't get my fingers working properly to make all the strings ring correctly without using 'excessive' force... but then, I've only been learning/playing 'properly' for a few months. Maybe this is something I could explore with my teacher...?

Anyway, this has been a great learning exercise about a number of things..

Fanx! for all the help, folks

[ozboomer]

Originally Posted by ozboomer

...I tried playing on a second (granted, cheapo) guitar ...if I played an individual note on almost any string, down in the first 5 frets, I could see on the strobo tuner that the pitch went up that 10 cents or more.

Well over the weekend I tried it on my 30-year old Les Paul Custom (copy) and the problem wasn't there; I could play notes in the first 5 frets and although the pitch went up that 10 cents or so, the relationships sounded Ok; specifically, I could play (5th string/3rd fret) and compare it to (3rd string/5th fret) and there was minimal beating, as well as the normal (5th fret/7the fret) harmonics as well.

I had another go at both of the Squire Strats and had a go at modifying the intonation... and that sort of helped... but maybe I'm just too fussy 'coz I can hear (significant) beating. I've previously been told that sometimes you just can't get a guitar to be 'perfectly' in tune for all keys and all across the fretboard and tuning is always a compromise...

Anyway, both of the Squires have the same problem, so maybe it's something to do with these (inexpensive) guitars (nut? saddles?). I'm hoping I'll be able to try some other instruments soon to try and get an idea as to whether it's my technique or if it's something really with the instruments.