[cmajor335]

Hi Kirk, Although I have been playing more years than I would like to confess to, I am trying to improve from just the few tunes I know by following your guitar lessons; learning to read music, which is hard at my age, as well as learn the scales/keys.
In Chord Tones, you mention that you don't need to learn the scales, just the cord tones, But surely to know which notes are 1, 3, 5 b7 of a key you need to first learn the scale. Or has my ancient brain this late in my evening read you incorrectly?
Regards
Cmajor335

[allthumbs]

Originally Posted by cmajor335

Hi Kirk, Although I have been playing more years than I would like to confess to, I am trying to improve from just the few tunes I know by following your guitar lessons; learning to read music, which is hard at my age, as well as learn the scales/keys.
In Chord Tones, you mention that you don't need to learn the scales, just the cord tones, But surely to know which notes are 1, 3, 5 b7 of a key you need to first learn the scale. Or has my ancient brain this late in my evening read you incorrectly?
Regards
Cmajor335

If the Key is in C then your numbers are a C7 chord if your just looking for those numbers in a key. That will always be a 7 chord in what ever key you choose to play. I don't think in scales. I see and use them as extensions of chords. The underlying notes will change, but the intervals are locked into position. Chords and scales are inseparable, they are the same notes. Don't get caught up in either- or. They are two sides of a whole. How you choose to mix them together is a matter of taste and experience.

[allthumbs]

I will upload a tune I just jammed over, It has two chords in it that force you to change scales so knowing just the numbers in the key is not going to get you all the way through this tune. You can play 3 different scales or follow the chords. It is called jh smoothy. My comfort level is with chords though you will hear bits of scales in there.

[Kirk Lorange]

Originally Posted by cmajor335

Hi Kirk, Although I have been playing more years than I would like to confess to, I am trying to improve from just the few tunes I know by following your guitar lessons; learning to read music, which is hard at my age, as well as learn the scales/keys.
In Chord Tones, you mention that you don't need to learn the scales, just the cord tones, But surely to know which notes are 1, 3, 5 b7 of a key you need to first learn the scale. Or has my ancient brain this late in my evening read you incorrectly?
Regards
Cmajor335

Hi, Cmaj335.

I didn't say you don't need to learn scales in that lesson ... I wouldn't advocate that. Anyone trying to learn how to play an instrument should know what scales are, especially the major scale, which is the mother of all music. Modes are just another way of looking at the major scale and pentatonics and blues scales are just cut down versions of other scales.

What I'm saying is: Don't think scales when soloing, think chords. Of course, if you have no problem thinking scales/modes when soloing, if you're satisfied with the results thinking scales, then carry on thinking along those lines. Most players aren't happy with scales, and if it were that simple, then we'd all be creating beautiful improvisations all the time. All we'd have to do is learn scales which is not very difficult to do. But, that's not the case, there's obviously more to it than just learning and playing scales.

You don't need to know the names of notes to zero in on them as chord tones. What you need to be able to do is know what number they are in the context of the chord being played at the time. 1-3-5-b7 ... those numbers apply to all 12 dom7th chords. Their actual names are of no importance when you're actually playing, creating a part. Chord tones are those notes which make up the chord. On a fretboard, chords have shapes. If you can see the shapes for all flavors from one end of the fretboard to the other, you can see chord tones. Once you can see them, you can play them, string all those perfectly relevant notes into melody. You will then no doubt want to add a few more notes to the melody ... those would be the other scale notes that aren't in the chord. Easy to fit them in once you've nailed the chord tones and you hear the melody evolving.

So yes, you have to learn the major scale, what it is, what its formula is, and you should know how the other scales differ from it, but you don't need to think about them when soloing, you can think chords, and by doing so, you're zeroing right in on the strongest notes for that moment of the tune ... even if the tune changes key every bar ...

I hope that clarifies it a bit!

[cmajor335]

Many thanks Kirk, As I originally said, my brain at that time of night; for me, gets tired and confused. So apologies.
When I started relearning the guitar, I tried to do everything with scales and never thought of chord tones. Your video showing them over the arpeggio lesson really brings it home. Perhaps it is time to at getting your Plane Talk Book.
Again many thanks
Cmajor335

[Kirk Lorange]

Originally Posted by cmajor335

Many thanks Kirk, As I originally said, my brain at that time of night; for me, gets tired and confused. So apologies.
When I started relearning the guitar, I tried to do everything with scales and never thought of chord tones. Your video showing them over the arpeggio lesson really brings it home. Perhaps it is time to at getting your Plane Talk Book.
Again many thanks
Cmajor335

You sound like the perfect candidate, Cmajor335. If you are having trouble with scales and you'd like to learn the easiest way to see the fretboard as a perpetual chord, PlaneTalk will teach it.

[Augustine]

Chord tones are deffinately the way to go when it comes to improvising, in my humble opinion. I too began with scales, as I think we all do when we first begin mapping out our way around the fretboard. Many years ago when I began playing, I was never satisfied with the result when it came to my solos, while using scales. I use to think that there MUST be something wrong with me! Little did I know...

I mean I was able to come up with a few clever ideas here and there useing scales, but for the most part my solos souded well... like scales! That is until a teacher and friend of mine years ago, opened my eyes to using chord tones. I mean it's so obvious to me now, but back then, it never occured to me. If it had been a snake, it would have bitten me.

I think when we are beginners (speaking for myself at least) we tend to over analyze it all; music that is, and sometimes end up missing what might be right in front of us. I fully intend to buy your book Plain Talk, Kirt. I never like to assume that I know it all, especially when it comes to music. I fully understand the concept and application of how to use chord tones to improvise, but I like to keep ALL of my learning options open. Plus, it gives me a chance to PICK YOUR BRAIN! The book sounds like a keeper.