Star Spangled Banner question

carol m · #1 July 6th, 2008

I looked at this one again and decided I need to pay more attention to the threory. I worked out the 'majorised ii' = the C#s in bars 4 and 12 (borrowed from Amaj instead of using a plain C as you would expect in a Key of G tune which would normally use Amin and its plain C for its ii chord)
but I don't get the flatVII reference.

My reasoning (which doesn't work) is: F is the VII in the key of G so a flat 7 would use a flatF. In the key of G the F is sharp, so a flat F would use a straight F not an F#. The only F of any sort used in Kirk's SSB is the D/F# at bars 2 and 10 which uses only a D with an F# in the bass.

I tried to use the D as the clue, so if a flat VII in this instance refers to a flat 7 of F (the VII of G), that would be a flat E which would me a D# not a plain D.

here is the link to the lesson so you don't have to search for it.

Kirk Lorange · #2 July 6th, 2008

Carol, I just went through it and you're right ...

I have no idea why I wrote that. I'll remove it.

eddiez152 · #3 July 7th, 2008

He,he,
I remember this situation in school one time. I think we got an A student here Kirk.

Kirk Lorange · #4 July 7th, 2008

Yes! I should have said "just testing to see who'd pick up on the mistake I planted there" ... good onya Carol, I hope you didn't spend too much of yesterday looking for that hint of a bVII.

eddiez152 · #5 July 7th, 2008

Kirk,
I have to add something here. Carol has mentioned before about
my picking patterns. So I tried to jot them down and produce a tab file.
Christ ! what a monumental task that is. I must say your efforts in recording, video, text explanation, and Pro5 efforts are simply terrific.
Thank you.

hb · #6 July 7th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirk Lorange

Yes! I should have said "just testing to see who'd pick up on the mistake I planted there" ... good onya Carol, I hope you didn't spend too much of yesterday looking for that hint of a bVII.

I can guarantee you it wouldn't have been me that found it!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's WAY too much thinking for this guy! LOL
But my hat's off to Carol for digging so deep.
hb

carol m · #7 July 7th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiez152

I think we got an A student here Kirk.

"Student" is the important word here Eddie! I like to know how things work, so having our very own teacher (Kirk) here plus other experts, I reckon its a waste if we don't make the most of the opportunity.

Mostly I'm lazy and just follow the numbers, but then I realise I have no idea what I'm actually playing (musically). It's easy to do with tabs. I think its probably less likely to happen using notation because you can see the intervals on the stave, but then you can miss the subtle musical spin that Kirk puts on it by using a different string (or octave) to catch your ear. And with notation its easy to not register what chord is being played and you can miss the whole 'chord tones' way of listening/hearing/playing.

About the bVII: I'm still not certain about it. Would a flat7 in the key of G have to have a plain F in it instead of the normal F#?

Eddie, I don't know if you know this, but if you use Courier New as the typeface, your tabs don't get scrambled when you upload them to this site.

Kirk Lorange · #8 July 7th, 2008

Yes, Carol ... the 7 in G is F#, so flat 7 is F. A bVII chord in G would be F, but there's not even the hint of it that I mentioned, so I have no idea where that came from, other than I'm losing my marbles.

hb · #9 July 7th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by carol m

"Student" is the important word here Eddie! I like to know how things work, so having our very own teacher (Kirk) here plus other experts, I reckon its a waste if we don't make the most of the opportunity.

Mostly I'm lazy and just follow the numbers, but then I realise I have no idea what I'm actually playing (musically). It's easy to do with tabs. I think its probably less likely to happen using notation because you can see the intervals on the stave, but then you can miss the subtle musical spin that Kirk puts on it by using a different string (or octave) to catch your ear. And with notation its easy to not register what chord is being played and you can miss the whole 'chord tones' way of listening/hearing/playing.

About the bVII: I'm still not certain about it. Would a flat7 in the key of G have to have a plain F in it instead of the normal F#?

Eddie, I don't know if you know this, but if you use Courier New as the typeface, your tabs don't get scrambled when you upload them to this site.

I agree Carol, but in the way of "chord tones", sometimes I get more confused that enlightened, i.e. in the last measure of "Star Spangled Banner" that calls for a 3-2-0-0, it has the "D" chord as the COTM, but all I can see is that there's a "G" chord that needs to be played there. Thus, I feel like I'm missing something. Perhaps I'm trying to make it too difficult.........dunno.
hb

eddiez152 · #10 July 7th, 2008

Kirk,
I'm 61 I will say no more. IT HAPPENS ! If I learn anything at all it will be a blessing.

Kirk Lorange · #11 July 8th, 2008

61 years young, Eddie, young.

hb, you found the other one ... I planted two mistakes in that lesson, one for Carol, one for you. You're right and the movie is right, that's a G chord, not a D chord. I'll fix it asap.

carol m · #12 July 8th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by hb

the COTM
hb

What's a COTM? Chord of the Month? Chord of the Moment? Canadian of the Month???

I'd say that was a simple typo, it's written in G and you'd expect it to end on the one chord (G).

btw Kirk, it's a great learning tool to sometimes include a delilberate mistake - keeps the punters on their toes!!!

Kirk Lorange · #13 July 8th, 2008

Chord of the Moment, Carol, it's a PlaneTalkers' Forum abbreviation.

As for including mistakes, there's one more in amongst all the lessons, but I'm not going to tell you which one. I give you 30 days to find it ...

carol m · #14 July 8th, 2008

I'm on to it....watch this space.

Also, I stalled a bit with Planetalk because I'm now a lefty. I spent the weekend making a Lefy insert to work with the PT slide rule. It's a real brain bender changing everything around in your head. They say using your brain keeps you young......this must mean I'll stay at 28 for ever

eddiez152 · #15 July 8th, 2008

Carol m

Thats gonna keep you pretty busy. But I guarantee you will learn a lot. Kirk please say your kidding. I already work 24/7 but now you even got me curious. Can I just blame it on the glasses ?