Funk Vamp - how would the PT guys solo over this?

scotty_b · #1 August 21st, 2006

I am curious to see how the PT guys would approach something like this. It is just a one chord vamp over a drum beat I put together to practice with.
It goes for just over a minute, which can be an very long time when there is nothing going on harmonically, and so all interest has to be generated by the soloist.
Looking foward to hearing some takes and approaches to this

Kirk Lorange · #2 August 21st, 2006

Hi scott_b. I'll have a go at this asap, but I can tell you that the PT mindset would be to play around with the chord tones. I hear a super extended A7 myself, meaning that I would look for lines in amongst the 1-b3-3-5-b7-9-11-13 -- and of course the underlying chromatic -- in other words just about every note going.

So let's first hear something you've recorded over this and give us an idea of your mindset, since you're asking the question. I've always found one-chord-vamps a little boring to play to ... melody loves chord tones, especially when there are at least a few going on. As you point out, one chord-vamps are not easy to keep interesting.

allthumbs · #3 August 21st, 2006

Uh oh. I played it in Em. Back to the drawing board.

737blues · #4 August 21st, 2006

he he .... don't feel bad AT, I was just about to post in the PT forum telling you what a good job you'd done, when the network went down.

allthumbs · #5 August 21st, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by 737blues

he he .... don't feel bad AT, I was just about to post in the PT forum telling you what a good job you'd done, when the network went down.

I killed the network?

It was worse than I thought.

Kirk Lorange · #6 August 21st, 2006

Ahhh! ... you're a funny guy, AT.

WernHalen · #7 August 22nd, 2006

You are a funny guy AT... in the wrong key but still funny...

scotty_b · #8 August 22nd, 2006

Hey guys
Thanks for the response Kirk
I haven't recorded anything over this yet - won't have a chance for a few days.
From a theoretical perspective I would consider the use of scales (dorian/mixolydian/blues) to play something closely related to the harmony. I would also use the diminished scale, the super-locrian and lydian b7 mode to create tension. To break it down further from there use of arpeggios, intervallic sequences through scales and chromatic movement between chord tones would all be good. In fact they would all be good anyway so that one avoids there playing of scale tones consecutively.
As nothing is really going on harmonically the use of dissonance would be important to create some movement in the lines played. Someone like Larry Carlton essentially builds arpeggios on top of one another to create melodic lines, but he can end up quite oustide the hamrony doing this. Larry is (IMHO) such an incredible player and has a huge vocabulary of ideas that he can go from inside to out very easily and still make it seamless.
This sort of thing would typically occur in funk or modern jazz. I was just curious to see how you would approach this, as I appreciate and respect your love of chord tones, but it is such a different thing to create something interesting when they are removed.
Marty, the Em scale would still work - it contains the same notes as the A mixolydian. Put it up and let us hear it!
I will hopefully get a chance to do some more recording on Friday afternoon, so will put up something then using the ideas I outlined.

Kirk Lorange · #9 August 22nd, 2006

Well, OK then. I did get a chance to play a quick pass through it on my nylon. I know, nylon string guitars aren't exactly made for funk, but I still don't have a nice electric set up for anything but slide.

I just thought 'A13' ... that took care of any and all extensions. I was basically looking for lines in A7, A9, G/A and Em chord tones -- that's how my brain works -- using the chromatic scale to link ideas up always remembering that 'A' is home. Mostly though, I was zoned right in on the melody line(s) I was creating, making them go where I wanted them to go.

WernHalen · #10 August 22nd, 2006

Very nicely done Kirk... I like it alot.

si16 · #11 August 22nd, 2006

Good one Kirk. Those double stops/chord fragments keep it interesting to my ear.

allthumbs · #12 August 22nd, 2006

Ok. My ears were only hearing the key as a cousin twice removed. I was told that The A with all the extensions shares many of the same notes as a G chord. Since Em is the relative minor of G it is in the realm of a kissing cousin so to speak, I guess this would be considered playing outside. As usual, I put a jazz spin on it and played it in Dropped D with a slide. Hard to play funk on a slide. Fun though.

737blues · #13 August 22nd, 2006

Amazing what you can do with that nylon Kirk.

I still think you've done a good job too AT.

Rockerbob · #14 August 22nd, 2006

Nice job, Kirk!

I think the Wah guitar is too high in the mix on the backing track. Once the lead is added, the drums and bass kind of go away.

scotty_b · #15 August 22nd, 2006

Great playing Kirk - the mixolydian lines had a very Larry Carlton feel to them.
RB - possibly true. It was really just a practice track for me to work on, so I didn't worry too much about the mix.