[jpeck]

Hello All,

This is my first post, but I'm jumping in with both feet....picked up a vintage National (1931 Triolian). It came with light gauge strings (and a kooky palm tree scene stenciled on the back:-). I threw on some mediums (.13) last night and I'm wondering if I can go up to heavies w/o putting to much tension on the neck.

Also, are there any tricks to stringing up the classical style tuners?

Thanks!

[LightninBoy]

Welcome jpeck.
I have a 1931 National Duolian, w/ orig cone.(so Bob Brozman tells me).
Great guitars, the real deal.
Be careful with the neck and the cone.
They can develop a bend where the neck joins the body if you have too much tension, especially in warmer climates.
I recently moved from the top of a Mountain to the sub-tropics, and noticed a slight rise at the 12th fret, on an otherwise perfect neck.
I had been using a custom gauge .013>.056 tuned to open E. (Too much tension, silly me).
I dropped the tuning down to open D, and imediatly noticed an improvement in tone and sustain. Seems too much tension "chokes" the cone.
The custom gauge I now use is .015 .019 .022w .030w .040w .056w
in open D tuning (vestapol) and its great!
I customised this gauge to even out the tension of vestapol tuning.
You can't buy them, you have to make em up yourself from singles.
(This may not suit you if you use a lot of different tunings on the guitar).
Below is a link to a tension calculator.
To answer your question depends on what tuning you are using, but I'd be reluctant to put Dobro (.016 < .060) stings on the National.

No tricks to the classical style tuners, they are a pain in the arse.
I put the first wind under so as to lock them in, and always have the winds finish on the outside relative to where the hole in the barrel is.
Good luck, hope I've helped.

www.mcdonaldstrings.com/stringxxiii.html

[jpeck]

Hi and thanks

The folks at Matt Umanov tell me this one's all riginawl parts too. Tis' a beauty...by my eyes and ears anyhow. So far I'm playing around in open D and G. Right now I'm going to buy one set at a time until I find what I like, once I'm settled custom sets may be the order of the day. Course any help from you fingerpickin' galoots could save me alot of time

Thanks....and a pic if you're interested

http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/...?image_id=1603

[Kirk Lorange]

Originally Posted by jpeck

....and a pic if you're interested.

Wow!

[allthumbs]

Originally Posted by LightninBoy

Welcome jpeck.
I have a 1931 National Duolian, w/ orig cone.(so Bob Brozman tells me).
Great guitars, the real deal.
Be careful with the neck and the cone.
They can develop a bend where the neck joins the body if you have too much tension, especially in warmer climates.
I recently moved from the top of a Mountain to the sub-tropics, and noticed a slight rise at the 12th fret, on an otherwise perfect neck.
I had been using a custom gauge .013>.056 tuned to open E. (Too much tension, silly me).
I dropped the tuning down to open D, and imediatly noticed an improvement in tone and sustain. Seems too much tension "chokes" the cone.
The custom gauge I now use is .015 .019 .022w .030w .040w .056w
in open D tuning (vestapol) and its great!
I customised this gauge to even out the tension of vestapol tuning.
You can't buy them, you have to make em up yourself from singles.
(This may not suit you if you use a lot of different tunings on the guitar).
Below is a link to a tension calculator.
To answer your question depends on what tuning you are using, but I'd be reluctant to put Dobro (.016 < .060) stings on the National.

No tricks to the classical style tuners, they are a pain in the arse.
I put the first wind under so as to lock them in, and always have the winds finish on the outside relative to where the hole in the barrel is.
Good luck, hope I've helped.

www.mcdonaldstrings.com/stringxxiii.html

hi LB. So what is the advantage exactly for evening out the tension on your strings . I would have to drop some strings a guage to do that. Would I lose tone going to a lighter string. Like Kirk, I have 16 and18 for the top strings and use reg 13 set for the rest.

[John]

A piece of musical history that you can still enjoy today--how cool is that?!

[LightninBoy]

Allthumbs,
String companies work out the tension of their gauges to achieve a fairly even balance across all 6 strings; using standard tuning as the base of these calculations.
I use Vestapol tuning a lot, where the 3rd string is tuned up a semi-tone, the 4th and 5th a whole tone. These strings feel much tighter.
I notice this a lot when playing with my fingers.
Customising the gauges evens out the tension with open tunings.
I dont notice any loss of tone, in fact it allows the strings to vibrate more freely, enhancing tone.
Also, my National has a 74 year old cone, and I don't want to crush it, but I like heavy strings.
Using customised gauges helps me achieve the heaviest gauge possible without damaging my neck, or cone, when you consider overall string tension.

In your case Allthumbs, this would not matter as much, as you use dropped D tuning.
I like a little extra tension on the 1st and 2nd strings, as being unwound, the tightness doesn't bother me so much, and the tone is noticeably fatter.
So, you probably have the optimum gauge, execpt maybe you could try a heavier 6th sting, to compensate for the low D.
Might give an extra boom to your bass! (A bit of messing around, I know)
Also, the wrong tension/gauge can mess with intonation on some guitars, but I can't be bothered going into that now.

I also customise the strings on my strat, but as I have to use it for a number of different tunings, and its as solid as a tank, the gauges I use differ from the ones I use on my National.
Also, I have a 1932 spider resonator, that I just use a regular 13 to 56 gauge on, because its bulit like a tank, and I use it for lots of different tunings. (Spanish G or A, open C, C6, standard, and sometimes vestapol).
I play a lot of fretted notes as well when I play slide, and what I have outlined suits my style of playing. It may not suit everybody's.
This is just the way I do things, only my opinion.
Just trying to help.

[allthumbs]

thanks for the info. I will play around with this to see if it makes a difference. That 16 and 18 messes up the tension on the middle strings. I was surprised at how much tension was on the middle D string.

[John]

I take care of string tension issues by making sure I tune down. I usually play in open "D". I've always been worried about putting to much pressure on the neck, soooo.... :?