[Skibumdog]

How does he do it:::::

I thought you were supposed to damp the strings behind the slide to keep all those wild overtones under control

I have tried to figure this out but I just don't get it

Skibumdog

[allthumbs]

hi skibumdog. good to see a new member. Kirk does all his damping with his right hand. His use of heavy strings and a heavy slide seem to cut down on the overtones. I bought a heavy slide and strings something like his and found that the overtones were no longer an issue unless you really want to play super clean tones. I just had a thought, maybe tuning in dropped D is less prone to overtones. Maybe the other players here who use other tunings could answer that question. Using a dropped D slide doesn't hurt either,fewer strings covered.
allthumbs

[allthumbs]

Hi skibumdog. How about a link to this guys music so we could have a listen?
allthumbs

[Skibumdog]

His official website is
www.sonnylandreth.com
Newest CD is Grant Street on Sugar Hill. I think it became available yesterday (1/25/05). Live recording, got very favorable write up in
Vintage Guitar March 2005 (which is out now)
Got to see him at a Denver Blues and Bones Festival a couple of years ago; him, bass player and drummer and a really tricked out guitar of some kind with a lot of effects eemingly built into guitar's controls.

[Kirk Lorange]

I saw Sonny here in Vancouver beginning of December. He was excellent.

I also do a lot of behind the slide playing. It requires a very deliberate touch, something that comes slowly.

Have a look at http://www.thatllteachyou.com/glix/ as an example.

Kirk

[allthumbs]

took a listen. I like his sound. It sure sounds like he is just damping really well rather than useing a soundgate or filter. cool finger power.
allthumbs

[Frankenstrat2]

I've seen Sonny play a number of times.
Playing behind the slide is a difficult technique, I'd call it 'advanced' because it requires quite a bit of practice, but its not impossible.
IMO, and after observing Sonny- your success at 'Fretting Behind The Slide fretting (FBTS) will vary greatly according to your gear and setup. You will have the best chance of success after you have developed a light touch with the slide, and mastered both left and right hand dampening.
The basic concept is that if your action is high enough, you can press a finger down onto a fret behind your slide, and the string will have enough clearance under the slide to ring through as a fretted note rather than the slide note. The fretted string must have enough clearance under the string when fretted to ring. Sonny often plays in an open tuning. The best example is the ability to turn any straight across slide chord in open E tuning to a minor chord simply by fretting one half step behind your slide on the the middle G string lowering the major third to a minor third. (I hope that's correct)
Sonny uses that technighe quite effectively to devise little riffs that are successions of notes that are assembled using a subtle rocking motion that gently releases the slide note to the fretted note behind the slide, or frets behind so the note sounds under the slide. This is hard to describe in written word and equally difficult to master.
I've just begun to be able to achieve the technigue on electric guitar after plenty of failed attempts. A lot has to do with the setup of the guitar, and it helps in the beginning (and later) to have some overdrive or compressed sustain to assist you in getting all the notes to carry through. Of course effective damping with both hands helps to get a clean sound.
Barry

[Frankenstrat2]

Originally Posted by admin

I saw Sonny here in Vancouver beginning of December. He was excellent.

I also do a lot of behind the slide playing. It requires a very deliberate touch, something that comes slowly.

Have a look at http://www.thatllteachyou.com/glix/ as an example.

Kirk

Hi Kirk
I just took a look at that video.
I guess what I was talking about is playing *under* the slide rather than behind it. Sonny does it all the time, its part of his signature sound and technique.
I didn't really see that or hear it in your clip, but maybe I missed it. Its hard to see your hands clearly on the computer screen.
Nice clip though!
Skibumdog-
The tricked out guitar you referred to is probably that Jimmy Page Les Paul with the auto tuning mechanisms built in. I've seen Sonny use that guitar, but it has no special effects built into it other than the tuning mechanisms. Sonny uses a delay and some compressor pedals, sometimes an overdrive box. His amps have a lot of sustain and overdive too. Everything else is in his hands. He has a fabulous variety of fingering/dampening techniques that are fairly unique in my experience.
I just saw his live show.
Amazing.
I recommend the new album.

[Johnny Guitar]

I really like Sonny's playing though I have never seen him live.

I saw a guy do the "fretting behind the slide thing" about twenty years ago. I think his name is Scott Colby. He was opening for experimental guitarists Fred Frith and Henry Kaiser. I remember reading something by Kaiser where he said to the self taught Colby about fretting behind the slide, "that's really wierd!" Kaiser, whom I believe has transcribed many of Beefheart's pieces, amongst amny other things, calling something "wierd" will definitely get my attention.

IIRC, Colby was doing a lot of the minor half step thing, but also more complex things like a seventh (a whole step down) and some two figer chords. I've forgotten about him, but I should look up his stuff since I remember being impressed by him.

I try to do this occasionally but it takes a very light touch with the slide, or nastyness happens. Like everything else with slide, it takes a firm but gentle and light touch and a huge ammount of practice and perseverance to get anything useful out of it.

[BluesJammer]

Big thanks Johnny Guitar,
Scott is amazing guitarist
http://www.station185.com/kronoson/k...site/colby.htm
http://www.station185.com/kronoson/k...Scott%20Colby/ 8)

[LightninBoy]

I've been playing behind the slide for years.
Its not that hard.
In open tunings you can get minor chords, m7ths, dom7ths,dim, M7ths, and other extensions behind the slide, theres lots if you can stretch a bit.
Also these can be used as arpeggio's for tasty licks and melodies.
Pull off and hammer licks to open strings (among others) work real well behind the slide too, as well as incororating the slide, with fingering for box scale licks.
Again, its not that hard, you just have to use your noodle.
As Barry pointed out, the guitar must have a high enough action for this to work,(but not too high).
I learned a lot from watching Ry Cooder, many moons ago.
And I've seen ol Kirky boy rip some nasty pull off's behind the slide too.
Makes slidin heaps of fun!
Get Behind!

[Johnny Guitar]

Yep! That's him.

Thanks for finding that, I really hadn't even thought about him in a while.

[BluesJammer]

You're welcome