[BillC15]

I've really wanted to fully comprehend the art of jazz improv. I feel like I can come up with some nice sounding lines, but for some reason it seems like there's some secret I'm missing out on that separates my improv solos from great ones. In a jazz groove with a lot of 2-5-1 or maybe even a 3-6-2-5-1 with a of of minor 7/9 chords as well as some thirteen chords, I can improvise using all dorian and major related scales. Say the 3-6-2-5-1 was in G, I think in terms of G and since I know all the G major shapes across the fretboard and I can essentially improvise with just this, given that G major is the same as A dorian, the 2 of G and A dorian is the same as D mixolydian, the 5. So generally, I use dorian over minor 7 or minor 9 chords and mixolydian over dominant chords, even though they usually mesh into the same thing like I have described above. So that's where I am now. Where I want to be is fitting cool jazzy extensions into my solos like many of the jazz greats like Joe Pass and Grant Geissman. Now of course I don't expect to be on their level of playing, but I guess my question is, though jazz greats like them do at times improvise using simple modal concepts like I have, what method(s) do they use to include all the extensions and passing tones that compliment the chords and chord changes if it is not just a matter of memorizing these notes as horn players do? Is there a guitar friendly way of looking at this? Or is it simply memorization? Exactly what are they doing????

[Kirk Lorange]

Hi BillC15. I can't speak for those two great players of course, but I think that they simply keep very good track of the chord progressions they're playing over. If you can 'see' each chord as it comes into play -- with all it's extensions -- you're looking at all the relevant notes for that moment in time and the intervals between them can always be filled chromatically.

I reckon my book Planetalk describes a very simple and friendly way to see chords like this. If I'm reading a chord chart or playing along to a progression I want to be able to look down at my fretboard and see every chord tone there because I know they're my prime notes. I never think of a scale or mode, I just see chord tones and of course the array of notes I'm looking at shift with each chord change. The 'bigger' the chord gets, the closer I get to looking at a scale/mode pattern, but it's still a different mindset because whatever pattern I'm looking at applies only to the 'chord of the moment'. I think the rest, like passing tones, is mere detail once you've mentally laid out the fretboard like that. There's really not much left over once you 'see' the chord as a fretboard-long entity.

I often use this movie as an example of that mindset:

YouTube - Jazzy Improvisation - Nylon string guitar

I kept the lines fairly straight forward in this because I did it for the members of the private PlaneTalkers' Forum to watch as an example of 'following the changes' to a backing track one of the members uploaded and asked about. Is this is the kind of melodic approach you're wondering about?

[BillC15]

WOW. Excellent video. That is exactly what I was looking for. I really enjoyed your ideas and some of the rhythms you used that were slightly behind the beat. Very tasteful.

I guess I sort of knew that jazz improv was based heavily on using chord tones that complement the rhythm section, but I always thought it was very difficult to "see" each one on the fretboard exactly when you need it. This video, though maybe it was just your superb playing, made this concept seem easier to me. If I am ever able to become successful in improvising with chord tones like that, I'm sure filling in gaps using related modes would add a nice jazzy touch to it.

Now I know that to fully comprehend this I would need to practice out of your book, but would you mind sharing with me, if possible, the basic approach you take to "make visible" each chord tone and memorizing them? I mean, I do have basic major chord tones in most keys memorized (1, 3, 5) but that's obviously (or at least in my opinion) too simple to create a tasteful jazz improv solo. What is basic method you teach to see and memorize chord tones such as basic dominant or minor extension chords?

[Kirk Lorange]

The PT 'trick' to seeing it all is too simple to even allude at without giving it away, Bill, but here's food for thought: if you can see the 1-3-5's, you can also see the the 2-4-6-7s, and therefore all others. There is a huge fretboard landmark though, one that you'll kick yourself for not seeing yourself once you know it, and that's the one I'm using at all times.

Here's another example of a minor blues thing that keeps changing key. It's done with slide, but I am in standard tuning and the PT mindset applies here too. If you listen to the chords, you'll hear that it's more than just a minor progression, there's more complexity to it than that and that's what I'm keeping in mind while I'l playing along. YouTube - Changes - Slide Guitar

[DG3]

Originally Posted by BillC15

I've really wanted to fully comprehend the art of jazz improv. I feel like I can come up with some nice sounding lines, but for some reason it seems like there's some secret I'm missing out on that separates my improv solos from great ones. In a jazz groove with a lot of 2-5-1 or maybe even a 3-6-2-5-1 with a of of minor 7/9 chords as well as some thirteen chords, I can improvise using all dorian and major related scales. Say the 3-6-2-5-1 was in G, I think in terms of G and since I know all the G major shapes across the fretboard and I can essentially improvise with just this, given that G major is the same as A dorian, the 2 of G and A dorian is the same as D mixolydian, the 5. So generally, I use dorian over minor 7 or minor 9 chords and mixolydian over dominant chords, even though they usually mesh into the same thing like I have described above. So that's where I am now. Where I want to be is fitting cool jazzy extensions into my solos like many of the jazz greats like Joe Pass and Grant Geissman. Now of course I don't expect to be on their level of playing, but I guess my question is, though jazz greats like them do at times improvise using simple modal concepts like I have, what method(s) do they use to include all the extensions and passing tones that compliment the chords and chord changes if it is not just a matter of memorizing these notes as horn players do? Is there a guitar friendly way of looking at this? Or is it simply memorization? Exactly what are they doing????

A great musician can think a line in his/her head and play it instantly. This is memorization in a sense but it becomes second nature in time. A good exercise is to map out a song's chords, writing the chord scales and just running up each scale finding a bridge or creating one with leading tones to the next scale. It's not quite a solo but you will start to see some patterns on how to get from chord to chord in standard progressions and start to see how leading tones and passing tones work in jazz. Good luck