[krissovo]

Hi all, I am interested in a discussion on this subject

I was chatting to some old school twangers tonight over a Guinness and I was arguing that without the web I would still be playing only CAGED chords very simply with not much direction. The response they came back with amazed me and I am still in a bit of shock.

They told me I was a lazy new breed of player! The cheek of it was my reaction but once they they explained I kind of think I am and I blame the internet.

Why you ask?

Ok, if I want to learn a song here is my process:

• Go on itunes and download song
• search for guitar pro tab
• pick up the rhythm
• play song
• learn solo following tab

Ok say that takes me an hour to learn a very easy song no problem!

Now here is how the old school did it:

• Record song off radio
• Spend ages exploring fret board to find chords
• spend even longer finding out the solo
• play song

Took them up to week or even longer to try and get the song even after a year or two of playing.

So what is my point, well I know very little theory and I cannot grasp the fret board but am I bothered.......not really as I can find a tab in seconds or go on a message board and ask a question to a problem with out researching or even thinking it through properly. Do I have to train my ear? Again not really as I can ask a question on a site like this and be told what the answer is.

Will I change my ways.....NOPE! Well probably not anyway.

So will there be internet era of guitar players like me that will lower the general quality guitar playing as a whole?

[tonedeaf]

Originally Posted by Lcjones

I used a slide rule. Les

A slide rule! What the kids are missing today, I went to school too with them too, that and the math table books to go along with it!

Anyway, I think that it is a great tool to have and it does cut down on the time needed to get you started. The exposure is just tremendous with today's techology. You could never get that much exposure or information years ago pre-Internet.

If playing by tabs is watered down I would agree with that. Where the difference I think will come into play (pardon the pun) is in compostition. The making of music might be not as robust or plentiful as in years past. I think.

[guttertrashsingalong]

I think its great!I mean i remember the cassette days rewinding and playing rewinding and playing man was such a task to get a riff down and hopefully right.But then again getting a tab off the net that is completely right is just as much work.Still have to use your ears and playing to work out the tabs.I mean your not gonna just up and play the tune right just by running thru the tabs still have to listen make corrections all that jazz!So i wouldnt say lazy using the tools thats in front of you seems smart to me!

[__tsidewinder__]

The making of music might be not as robust or plentiful as in years past. I think.

Yeah, I think I've noticed that. People today listen to, say, Nickelback, which has very little impressive gukitar work, and not a whole lot of imagination. I'm not going to talk about rap...

What I'd like to know, is who's going to be the guitar legend fifty years from now? Probably still Clapton, Page, and Hendrix, because although many MANY people can copy Clapton and Page, how many can make a song like Stairway to Heaven? Certainly not NickelBack.

It doesn't seem like this generation has much to offer as far as original and awesome guitar players. I hope I'm wrong about that.

I know for sure that I would not be as good a player without this site. I wouldn't have gotten to the point where I could've learned a lot from this site as quickly, without various TAB sites telling me how to play this song, or that song. So, the internet can't be all that bad. I still learn some stuff by ear, simply becuase TAB sites are incredibly and sometimes ridiculously inaccurate. So, I play the song at half speed on my computer and slowly learn the song.

[Chris C]

Originally Posted by Bennett

Every generation will be inherently lazier than the next.

For example:
- Did you brew that Guiness you or your friends were drinking?
- Did you breed/grow your last meal?
- Did you weave your last shirt or build you last house?

Hi Bennett,

Yep, brew the beer (well...OK...used to...)
Grow my own food (well...OK..some of it..)
Definitely did build my own house though..

But, seriously, though I agree with your points. Things move on. I have no inclination to walk everywhere or abandon my car for a horse and cart.

I think the new developments are great. They can speed things up a lot. I'm delighted not to have to spend days hunched over a speaker trying to figure things out. Besides, if those old cheapskates had wanted to, they could have bought the sheet music too! Pinching stuff is just quicker than it used to be.

I like it both ways. I like to make some quick progress, but I've also taken the time to learn to read music and explore theory. It's useful and interesting.

And I like to leave the car at home and walk sometimes too.

Cheers,

Chris

[Justapicker]

Originally Posted by Kirk Lorange

I must say, when I got online I had no idea that tab was such a popular means of learning guitar ... I don't even think I knew what it was. It did, and still does really, seem like a bad way to learn, but then I realized it was pretty much the same as standard notation.

Now THAT is heresy!

[737blues]

There is no doubt in my mind that the combination of Internet teaching aids, electronic gadgets, modern guitars, sequencing software and the easy form of most modern music, make it possible for folk with little musical talent to produce acceptable music. Well, acceptable by modern standards anyway.

Whether that's a good or bad thing is very much a matter of personal perspective. for myself, (as a person with very mediocre abilities and basically no musical talent) I'd say it's a very fortunate thing.

[Bennett]

Originally Posted by Chris C

Hi Bennett,

Yep, brew the beer (well...OK...used to...)
Grow my own food (well...OK..some of it..)
Definitely did build my own house though..

But, seriously, though I agree with your points. Things move on. I have no inclination to walk everywhere or abandon my car for a horse and cart.

Hiya Chris!

I guess they weren't the best examples. Yeah, I've brewed my own beer (not Guiness though ) and still grow my own veges. 'Course I don't weave my own shirts ... yet, although some look like I could well have done it.

But I guess the key here is that we do these things not because we necessarily have to but because we choose to. Mind you, growing veges is almost a necessity these days given that crap being sold in supermarkets.

I guess in the same way that we may go back to a simpler life in some respects I'm sure there are those that choose to learn the old fashioned way; perhaps because they find more reward this way.

Anyhoo, I guess this question is possibly a little skewed given we're all err ... answering via the Internet.

[jon_stggt]

When I first picked up a guitar many years ago, I went through listening to records or tapes and jotting down what I thought the chords to be etc. Those days are gone, today we have the internet. I can now find forums such as this, endless lists of chords, music, teaching, video and so on. As to how good the guitarist becomes in my opinion has nothing to do with the fantasy that some are gifted, it's down to how much we want it. Do I want to play, how well do I want to play. Above all, why do I want to play. If it's purely an ego thing where I want to be seen to be this awesome guitarist then maybe I'll never be "great" but if it's deaper, there's passion for the instrument and a hunger to understand it and the music then it's simply down to how much time and effort I put in. Talent NO, passion and determination YES.
The internet is a massive tool with endless supplies of information, how we use that information is totally down to the individual.
As for old school, it's the same in amateur radio on the subject of morse code. Or for photgraphers that come straight into the digital world having never used or processed film.
As for the number of guitarist in the world. There may well be more taking up guitar now, but is that down to us simply being more aware due to internet access. Without this forum for example I wouldn't know of any of you, you are guitar players all, but I wouldn't know.
If indeed there is a growing number of people interested in learning guitar, then much of that is owed to the endless access to learning materials via the internet i'm sure.

The guitarists of today live in a world hungry for information and the internet can fill the biggest of bellies.

[coldethyl]

Great thread Krissovo!

Provides food for thought doesn't it. Looking at it from my angle, I sometimes feel guilty for spending what I consider is more time on the internet than I probably should on the guitar.
Actually the other day I was figuring out if I swapped the time that I spend in front of the PC for the time I have on guitar, I'd most definitely be playing more than I am now.

But on the other hand, I agree with many of other member's comments in that the internet has opened another door to learning and progressing on the guitar perhaps quicker than it did pre-internet. There is so many learning tools online for those wanting to learn theory, or whatever genre of playing they're into (classical, blues, metal, fingerstyle, jazz, etc)

Although, I'm still a firm believer for someone that is starting the guitar from scratch and being serious about learning, to try and find a good teacher and take it from there, in preference to searching through many different tutors, and teaching methods online.

Anway, looks like the internet is going to be here with us for a long time to come until someone else comes up with something better, so we make the best of what we have for now.

[jon_stggt]

Originally Posted by coldethyl

Great thread Krissovo!

Provides food for thought doesn't it. Looking at it from my angle, I sometimes feel guilty for spending what I consider is more time on the internet than I probably should on the guitar.

Now that's a really good point. Thinking more on that, with so much information on the net I do find myslef in front of the computer rather than picking away at my strings. The trick for me is understanding that no matter how much information I can get hold of, I have to put it to practice. Just maybe, the practice is what may be lacking in todays world. So much is at the touch of a switch. Yet to play, we must practice. Therefore more guitarist will only be "ok" and not great. Not so much down to talent, but more so spending so much time lost in the word of endless information and not enough time with hands on.
As for teachers, I found mine, that'll be Kirk, his books and this forum. The beauty of Kirks teaching is the fact it's not all about information, it's about getting your hands on the guitar and practice practice practice.

[Chris C]

Originally Posted by coldethyl

Provides food for thought doesn't it. Looking at it from my angle, I sometimes feel guilty for spending what I consider is more time on the internet than I probably should on the guitar.
Actually the other day I was figuring out if I swapped the time that I spend in front of the PC for the time I have on guitar, I'd most definitely be playing more than I am now.

Ain't that the truth!

My resolution for 2007 was to do just what you said there - reverse the ratio of playing and waffling.

My music came on quite a lot last year, but nowhere near as much as my 'talking about music' did.

I'm quite the maestro at 'hot air' guitar now....

Cheers,

Chris
Now where did I put that stringed thing...

[scotty_b]

Originally Posted by eXperiment63

The quality of the player is in his hands, not his ears.

I cannot agree with this at all. Listen to how many guitar players cannot play a bend in tune, or keep their vibrato in tune, or respond to music as it is performed.
A player without a developed ear is on par with a blind painter.

[Stratrat]

Originally Posted by coldethyl

...Actually the other day I was figuring out if I swapped the time that I spend in front of the PC for the time I have on guitar, I'd most definitely be playing more than I am now...

I plead guilty as charged, your honor.

Seriously though.....while I agree that the information is much more readily available and easier to obtain now than it was in days past, the bottom line is that you STILL have to put in the work on the axe to develop skill. I can download all the tab and learn all the theory I want, but that won't make me a good guitar player......nothing but practice will do that, and that's the one thing that hasn't changed from then until now.

[fly135]

"For example, for those that learnt computer programming in Assembly instead of lovely programming environments we have today."

That would be me.

[solidwalnut]

Originally Posted by scotty_b

...A player without a developed ear is on par with a blind painter.

Good one...