[Schermerberger]

Thank you Kirk,
That slide of yours must be hefty. I'm using a thick walled pyrek dunlop. It works pretty well I'm just not to the point where it acts like an extension of my hand yet. Plus it's not heavy at all... nice tone but without weight.

With my trusty plane-talk slide rule I'm opening up the "A" in standard tune to work for me.

[pcmancini]

Hi,

Are you playing acoustic or electric. I personally think the overtones and harmonics on an acoustic slide provide some very pleasing sounds - greasy as one of my friends calls it. On electric, I tend to like the cleaner tones and use a combination of palm muting and behind the slide damping. But I do let up on this for some tone variation at times.

I am glad we are getting some more action on the forum as well.

Paul

[Frankenstrat2]

Originally Posted by Kirk

I don't take much notice of muting behind the slide, I don't often hear anything too ugly coming from back there, but I know other players do. I don't know why I don't have that problem of unwanted harmonics ringing out. I just checked then and I can keep all fingers off the strings and still get no real problems.

Hey Kirk
I'm sure as an instructor you'd be the first one to say that when it comes to good slide tone, its mostly about touch, and experience.
I suspect that many people pick up a slide, try to run a few riffs, sound like crap, and they put it back down and give up. I know I suffered through that cycle many times. Until I finally learned how to dampen and palm mute.
I have no doubt there are many veteran slide players that sound great with a thin slide, light gauge strings, low action and not much damping behind the slide. There are also great players that wear a slide on whatever finger they prefer. I'm a firm believer in 'whatever works for you is fine'...
But it seems that conventional wisdom in the 'slide guitar instruction community' recommends that beginning and intermediate players will make better progress with a fair amount of damping behind the slide and palm muting with the picking hand.
I hate to seem to contradict you. I think you are a great player, and I think your Plane Talk teaching system is a revelation and a useful innovation for the guitar community.
I'm just wary of the fact that novice slide players may look to your example and not work on damping behind the slide, get frustrated, and quit.
IMO, its probably better to start off learning to dampen behind the slide, and then you can certainly abandon the technique later if you find that you sound good without it.
By the way, I'm really looking forward to your Drop D Slide Instruction Course. There really isn't enough good teaching material out there, and I know you'll do a great job.
Barry

[allthumbs]

Maybe it's the heavy slide or heavy strings, but I also don't have to pay much attention to damping behind the slide. I remember I used to in the old days of using a full slide with open tunings. Now with a dropped D slide in standard or Dropped D, I don't seem to think about it at all.

[Frankenstrat2]

Originally Posted by allthumbs

Maybe it's the heavy slide or heavy strings, but I also don't have to pay much attention to damping behind the slide. I remember I used to in the old days of using a full slide with open tunings. Now with a dropped D slide in standard or Dropped D, I don't seem to think about it at all.

Kind of supports my point, dontcha think?
Beginners may need the extra contol that damping affords. As you get more advanced, your touch improves and you can relax more.
I really can't get behind the idea of a 'special drop D slide , or that any particular tuning or lack thereof, will change your ability to control touch, intonation, or tone. Its all about facility, usually coming from practice or experience.
I'm really surprised that veteran slide players would not support the idea that beginners should learn damping techniques. As an experiment, I tried to consciously NOT dampen behind the slide. I could clearly hear oppositional reverse overtones that I would find distracting and unpleasant if I had to listen to someone else playing that way constantly.
But, admittedly- I dont think too much about damping behind the slide anymore- its pretty automatic, and light.

[Johnny Guitar]

Originally Posted by Frankenstrat2

Beginners may need the extra contol that damping affords. As you get more advanced, your touch improves and you can relax more.

<edit>

But, admittedly- I dont think too much about damping behind the slide anymore- its pretty automatic, and light.

I think you are really on to something here. When you are starting out, there are just too many ways to sound bad. Damping behind the slide will eliminate a number of problems like the distraction harmonics from behind the slide as well as noise when the slide is not pressed hard enough against the strings.

I know that I don't always dampen behind the slide anymore, but that's good because it has become one of the many unconscious things that happen as one develops skill: doing it when it needs to be done, but not being aware that one is doing it.

I think this is related to your answer in another thread about the difference between fingerpicking and fingerpicking and dampeing (right hand) for slide. There are clearly different techniques for each, but developing a rudimentary skill (like I need to do) for fingerstyle guitar will get you a good start in developing the similar skills for slide.

John

[Frankenstrat2]

Originally Posted by Johnny Guitar

I think you are really on to something here. When you are starting out, there are just too many ways to sound bad. Damping behind the slide will eliminate a number of problems like the distraction harmonics from behind the slide as well as noise when the slide is not pressed hard enough against the strings.

I know that I don't always dampen behind the slide anymore, but that's good because it has become one of the many unconscious things that happen as one develops skill: doing it when it needs to be done, but not being aware that one is doing it.

I think this is related to your answer in another thread about the difference between fingerpicking and fingerpicking and dampeing (right hand) for slide. There are clearly different techniques for each, but developing a rudimentary skill (like I need to do) for fingerstyle guitar will get you a good start in developing the similar skills for slide.

John

Thanks for your support on this.
I still maintain anything that works for you is fine. Mastering slide seems to be very much a self-taught learning experience anyway, and thats what makes for diversity. How boring if we all sounded the same!
But beginners need all the help and encouragement they can get to sound good from the starting block.
I picked up a slide many many times over the years, and got disgusted and put it down because I didn't have anyone around to show me the basics. Finally I picked up a couple of pretty good instructional videos- Arlen Roth's and Roy Rogers. Between the two of them I got it together, but good damping technique had a lot to do with it, and it was certainly covered in both of those videos.

[allthumbs]

Apon further thought, I don't think to much about dampimg behind the slide because I play with fingers only and damp with my right hand a lot. Kind of tough for a beginner to do and much harder if your playing with a pick or finger picks.

[Schermerberger]

thanks for all the comments; after a few more days of fiddling with it the comfort has set in a bit for the behind the slide muting. And after hearing all the slide bits from you all, I realize the right hand muting is where its at to get a clean sing songy sound.
Control seems to be the name of the game. Just the right touch of vibrato, string isolation muting, it's not an easy bit in standard or drop D tuning.
At this point I haven't modified my guitar set up to taylor to slide playing. so with the thick walled pyrex, typically low action w/ 11's on it I don't have the breathing room to press too hard on the 1st & 6th w/o buzzing the fret. But my endeavor is fun.

[Frankenstrat2]

Originally Posted by schermerberger

thanks for all the comments; after a few more days of fiddling with it the comfort has set in a bit for the behind the slide muting. And after hearing all the slide bits from you all, I realize the right hand muting is where its at to get a clean sing songy sound.
Control seems to be the name of the game. Just the right touch of vibrato, string isolation muting, it's not an easy bit in standard or drop D tuning.
At this point I haven't modified my guitar set up to taylor to slide playing. so with the thick walled pyrex, typically low action w/ 11's on it I don't have the breathing room to press too hard on the 1st & 6th w/o buzzing the fret. But my endeavor is fun.

The worst culprit is likely to be your high E string. If you are not planning on any manly Albert King 3 step bends, you might consider bumping up a guage or two on the high E.
12, 13, or even 14 can handle the tension and won't fret out.
FWIW, while it's invaluable to achieve good right hand muting of adjacent strings to isolate the target note, the right hand will never be able to cancel out oppositional harmonic overtones from behind the slide on the note(s) that are permitted to sound. The only way to control that is with some amount of light damping behind the slide.
The guy who really taught me how to play slide called the three fingers that lay across the strings behind the slide a 'paddle'. Throughout our first few lessons, whenever he heard those oppositional overtones, or caught us with our damping fingers off the strings he would call out 'Put your Paddle down!" Its a very good habit to teach to a beginner, but hard to embrace consistently if you didn't start out playing slide that way. Its easier to instill good technique to a 'clean slate' than to erase bad habits that have been ingrained for a long time.
'Keep your paddle down' is still good advice for any level of player, unless you are going to use oppositional overtones as a part of your 'style'. But that should be a conscious decision, not a by-product of sloppy technique.