[steve/f]

Hi everyone, how does learning scales help you when you are playing a song.

cheers.

[scotty_b]

Originally Posted by solidwalnut

I'm a firm believer in meeting guitarists where they are at, individually, in their learning processes. There is definitely not a 'one size fits all' type of progression in learning, although there are basic truths that must be told. How we go about getting to those truths is always a great conversation :-)

Another good value of PT is that it gives a visual aid to fretboard and anchors. From there, you can go even beyond PT, and enable the student to use the entire fretboard as an anchor!

Steve

I agree with all of that. I cater my lessons to where the student is at, or suggest to them another teacher who can meet their needs if I cannot. I am not really able to teach someone to play doom metal, black metal, or any other sub-genre. I know nothing about the music.
I think PT is great as a map to the fretboard, and scales and theory can complement that by allowing the player to know which passing tones/tension notes can be added in if they wish to stay within the key - ie when to use the natural 6th verses the major 6th etc.

[Justapicker]

Originally Posted by Chaotic Kittie

I don't really agree with "independence". Just practising scales up and down won't bring independence, you'll still follow a pattern. Getting stuck in that pattern is a real pain!

If you intend to learn scales, don't just run them up and down, vary them a lot. Play patterns like 1 3 2 5 7 6 4 instead of 1234567, practise finding them on just 1 string, etc etc. You don't want your muscle memory to lock the positions of the scales, it can lock your creativity when playing too.

Technically they are, as justapicker said, a great way of learning techniques like speed picking, hammer-ons, pull-offs, slides and to control your picking.

Whether scales are any use or not can be discussed, but if you learn a scale, then don't learn it repetitive.

Segovia is refering to finger independence in both the left and right hands. Practicing scales will help you develop that.

Scales shouldn't be done mindlessly by rote, they should be practiced in different note groupings and rhythms, as well as broken up into interval and arpeggio (broken chord) exercises.

Learn to play 3 octave scales and their modes in all 12 keys, learn how the chords and arpeggios are derived from the scales and you'll be able to play anything in any key anywhere on the neck.

There's no contorversey here, it's basic pedagogy and basic musicianship.

[MC.exe]

Speaking of scales, can someone point in the right direction as to how to do scales? Or just a general over view of scales. I dunno, I don't have a clue where to start.

[justinthyme]

Originally Posted by Justapicker

Learn to play 3 octave scales and their modes in all 12 keys, learn how the chords and arpeggios are derived from the scales and you'll be able to play anything in any key anywhere on the neck.

Or if you don't have the motivation to do all that, a much faster route to the 'any key, anywhere' thing is (IMHO) PlaneTalk, which is a comparative doddle

[Fretsource]

Originally Posted by MC.exe

Speaking of scales, can someone point in the right direction as to how to do scales? Or just a general over view of scales. I dunno, I don't have a clue where to start.

Here's a useful one written in TAB to start you off. It's the G major scale (over two octaves)

------------------------------------------2--3-
------------------------------------3--5-------
---------------------------2--4--5-------------
------------------2--4--5----------------------
---------2--3--5-------------------------------
---3--5----------------------------------------

The notes are:
G A B C D E F# G A B C D E F# G

Play it in the first position using one finger per fret, i.e. if the note is on the first fret, use your first (index finger) if second fret, use second finger and so on. You should also play it in reverse order too, i.e., ascending then descending.

As this is the scale of G major, it starts on the note G. But this is a moveable shape. You can start anywhere on the sixth string and get a different major scale depending on which note you start from.

[Kasper]

Could anyone tell me why that F# isn't an F?

[cshude]

Because the pattern of the major scale is T T H T T T H.
Following this pattern in the key of G, the notes you have are G A B C D E F# G. The patterns of steps/half steps is one thing that (at least for me) is easier to picture on a piano keyboard. There is only a half-step between B and C, and between E and F.

The other answer is to play the scale with an F rather than F# thusly:
---------------------------------------------3-
------------------------------------3--5--6----
---------------------------2--4--5-------------
------------------2--3--5----------------------
---------2--3--5-------------------------------
---3--5----------------------------------------

Play that scale above and your answer will be clear to your ears.

[MC.exe]

Originally Posted by Fretsource

Here's a useful one written in TAB to start you off. It's the G major scale (over two octaves)

------------------------------------------2--3-
------------------------------------3--5-------
---------------------------2--4--5-------------
------------------2--4--5----------------------
---------2--3--5-------------------------------
---3--5----------------------------------------

The notes are:
G A B C D E F# G A B C D E F# G

Play it in the first position using one finger per fret, i.e. if the note is on the first fret, use your first (index finger) if second fret, use second finger and so on. You should also play it in reverse order too, i.e., ascending then descending.

As this is the scale of G major, it starts on the note G. But this is a moveable shape. You can start anywhere on the sixth string and get a different major scale depending on which note you start from.

Ah, I see. Thanks.

[Fretsource]

Originally Posted by Fretsource

Here's a useful one written in TAB to start you off. It's the G major scale (over two octaves)

------------------------------------------2--3-
------------------------------------3--5-------
---------------------------2--4--5-------------
------------------2--4--5----------------------
---------2--3--5-------------------------------
---3--5----------------------------------------

The notes are:
G A B C D E F# G A B C D E F# G

Play it in the first position using one finger per fret, i.e. if the note is on the first fret, use your first (index finger) if second fret, use second finger and so on. You should also play it in reverse order too, i.e., ascending then descending.

As this is the scale of G major, it starts on the note G. But this is a moveable shape. You can start anywhere on the sixth string and get a different major scale depending on which note you start from.

SORRY - I made a terrible mistake about fingering. I said play it in the first position (first fret, first finger, second fret second finger etc.)
IMPOSSIBLE
I meant play it in the SECOND POSITION.
Fret 2 = first finger
Fret 3 = second finger
Fret 4 = third finger
Fret 5 = fourth finger

So it starts with finger 2 on fret 3

My reputation is in ruins

Will I ever recover?

Yep - recovered already

[MC.exe]

Yeah, I pretty much worked that out.

[Justapicker]

Originally Posted by cshude

Because the pattern of the major scale is T T H T T T H.
Following this pattern in the key of G, the notes you have are G A B C D E F# G. The patterns of steps/half steps is one thing that (at least for me) is easier to picture on a piano keyboard. There is only a half-step between B and C, and between E and F.

The other answer is to play the scale with an F rather than F# thusly:
---------------------------------------------3-
------------------------------------3--5--6----
---------------------------2--4--5-------------
------------------2--3--5----------------------
---------2--3--5-------------------------------
---3--5----------------------------------------

Play that scale above and your answer will be clear to your ears.

Play it like that and you've got G Mixolydian, the fifth (or dominant) mode of C major.